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I hesitate to even start this thread, because I think it's going to be hard to keep on topic. But let's give it a try anyway.
I spend a lot of time hiking and tent-camping in bear country - black bear, not grizzly. Northern Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Tennessee. When I lived in Montana, I always carried a Ruger .44 magnum. I no longer have that gun; my only large-caliber handguns are a Dan Wesson .357 and a .45 Colt 1911. Typically, I take the .45 in the woods with me. I like the 3 extra rounds (1 in the chamber, 8 in the magazine), and the quicker reload if the need should arise.
I'm interested in hearing people's opinions about what sort of ammunition would be more effective against black bears. Am I better off with 230 grain FMJ for the penetration, or hollow point for maximum tissue damage and shock? I currently alternate, with one round of FMJ in the magazine, then a hollowpoint, then FMJ, then hollowpoint, etc. If it ever actually does become necessary, I expect that I'll just be aiming for the face and the throat from less than 10 feet away. In the best-case scenario, I would be putting rounds on the front of the skull and the nasal cavity, and/or into the torso through the throat and exposed upper chest. I would think that a FMJ would be more effective for a frontal head shot, and a hollowpoint for the throat and internal organs (assuming I can get a clear shot at the area above the ribs).
I figure that a pure anti-personnel round like Speer Gold Dot is wasted on a bear, because I would expect it to shred itself before it even gets through the hide and the fat layer, but if anyone thinks I'm overthinking that one, I'd be interested in their argument.
For that matter, does anyone think I'm better off with the .357 over the .45? I'm open to being wrong about that one, if people do think it would be a better caliber for some reason.
I don't want to spend a lot of time debating whether a handgun is even an appropriate weapon for defending yourself against bears in the first place - a handgun is all I'm carrying, and it's either the .45 or the .357. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Black bears are very docile. When I was 13 one approached me near Hunter Mtn. in upstate NY and I got rid of it by yelling and jumping up and down.
If you need a gun to chase away a black bear I feel bad for you.
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreutz
Black bears are very docile.
If you need a gun to chase away a black bear I feel bad for you.
<<<<<
The two statements above are totally inaccurate and show complete lack of knowledge with regard to Black Bear fatality statistics and their potential danger to humans.
Per the US Fish & Wildlife Service: Just since the year 2000 (and up to 2011), there have been 29 documented fatalities in the US & Canada.......15 in Canada & 14 in the US, of which 17 were by Black Bears..AND recently from 2011 to May 2014 there have been 5 more deaths from Black Bear!! And from 1964 to 1976, there are 1028 recorded incidences of Black Bears aggressively interacting with humans JUST in Great Smoky Mountains National Park of which 107 resulted in severe injury.
I have lived, hiked, camped, ridden horse back AND hunted Grizzly (Kodiak & Brown Bear in B.C. & Alaska) and Black Bear, for 52 of my 82 years, thus I feel my personal experiences and my research over many years render the above quoted statements worthless.
Regarding the original OP's question on which handgun round for bear defense?:.....depending on the circumstances and 'where' you are: I would say: Carry the 'most powerful handgun cartridge you feel qualified to shoot'.
Last edited by Montana Griz; 05-16-2014 at 06:13 PM..
The two statements above are totally inaccurate and show complete lack of knowledge with regard to Black Bear fatality statistics and their potential danger to humans.
Per the US Fish & Wildlife Service: Just since the year 2000 (and up to 2011), there have been 29 documented fatalities in the US & Canada.......15 in Canada & 14 in the US, of which 17 were by Black Bears..AND recently from 2011 to May 2014 there have been 5 more deaths from Black Bear!! And from 1964 to 1976, there are 1028 recorded incidences of Black Bears aggressively interacting with humans JUST in Great Smoky Mountains National Park of which 107 resulted in severe injury.
Wow, so for two countries in 11 years you show 17 deaths by black bear (determined how?).
That's...statistically insignificant in a population size of about 380,000,000 (rough population of US+Canada)
Quote:
I have lived, hiked, camped, ridden horse back AND hunted Grizzly (Kodiak & Brown Bear in B.C. & Alaska) and Black Bear, for 52 of my 82 years, thus I feel my personal experiences and my research over many years render the above quoted statements worthless.
Regarding the original OP's question on which handgun round for bear defense?:.....depending on the circumstances and 'where' you are: I would say: Carry the 'most powerful handgun cartridge you feel qualified to shoot'.
Worthless? How did an unarmed 13 year old boy chase one away then?
You be the big man and take pot shots at the thing that runs away when confronted with a scrawny teenagers shouting so you can tell yourself you showed it.
I hesitate to even start this thread, because I think it's going to be hard to keep on topic. But let's give it a try anyway.
I spend a lot of time hiking and tent-camping in bear country - black bear, not grizzly. Northern Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Tennessee. When I lived in Montana, I always carried a Ruger .44 magnum. I no longer have that gun; my only large-caliber handguns are a Dan Wesson .357 and a .45 Colt 1911. Typically, I take the .45 in the woods with me. I like the 3 extra rounds (1 in the chamber, 8 in the magazine), and the quicker reload if the need should arise.
I'm interested in hearing people's opinions about what sort of ammunition would be more effective against black bears. Am I better off with 230 grain FMJ for the penetration, or hollow point for maximum tissue damage and shock? I currently alternate, with one round of FMJ in the magazine, then a hollowpoint, then FMJ, then hollowpoint, etc. If it ever actually does become necessary, I expect that I'll just be aiming for the face and the throat from less than 10 feet away. In the best-case scenario, I would be putting rounds on the front of the skull and the nasal cavity, and/or into the torso through the throat and exposed upper chest. I would think that a FMJ would be more effective for a frontal head shot, and a hollowpoint for the throat and internal organs (assuming I can get a clear shot at the area above the ribs).
I figure that a pure anti-personnel round like Speer Gold Dot is wasted on a bear, because I would expect it to shred itself before it even gets through the hide and the fat layer, but if anyone thinks I'm overthinking that one, I'd be interested in their argument.
For that matter, does anyone think I'm better off with the .357 over the .45? I'm open to being wrong about that one, if people do think it would be a better caliber for some reason.
I don't want to spend a lot of time debating whether a handgun is even an appropriate weapon for defending yourself against bears in the first place - a handgun is all I'm carrying, and it's either the .45 or the .357. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Wow, so for two countries in 11 years you show 17 deaths by black bear (determined how?).
That's...statistically insignificant in a population size of about 380,000,000 (rough population of US+Canada)
Worthless? How did an unarmed 13 year old boy chase one away then?
You be the big man and take pot shots at the thing that runs away when confronted with a scrawny teenagers shouting so you can tell yourself you showed it.
He sited the Fish and Game Service. The numbers also show that there are more deaths by Black Bear, than Grizzly's.
He sites stats for many years of data and you site one single encounter.
Thanks, I'll carry a gun, the biggest gun I have. I have had Black Bear Encounters and yelling is a good line of defense, most of the time, when you encounter a bear. It is totally worthless should you get between a sow and her cubs. Then, flapping your arms and yelling isn't going to do a lot.
Black bears are very docile. When I was 13 one approached me near Hunter Mtn. in upstate NY and I got rid of it by yelling and jumping up and down.
If you need a gun to chase away a black bear I feel bad for you.
That's incorrect. Most bear/human encounters that result in injuries are with black bears. These bears are far from docile. Since they are plentiful compared to other bear species and often roam in close proximity to humans, the result is more encounters. However, grizzly/brown bear encounters with humans results on more fatalities than black bear/human encounters.
But most reports found on the Internet, including those from US Parks, relate to a certain area (s), not to every State in the US, and are somewhat bias relating to not making the park look bad or not secure for visitors. In Alaska the average number of deaths to bears is around one person every other year or so. Last year a well known man in Fairbanks was attacked and killed by a black bear, but most deaths up here are caused by grizzly/brown bears. Black bears tend to be aggressive and predatory, while grizzlies tend to stay away from humans (if they can hear you coming). Other than that, grizzly/brown bears could turn predatory during an attack, but a black bear being predatory is a lot more common.
Personally I would worry more about mountain lions then bears. Make a lot of noise while your hiking and bears aren't likely to bother you. The mountain lions will actually hunt you and take you down before you even know they are around.
Black bears are very docile. When I was 13 one approached me near Hunter Mtn. in upstate NY and I got rid of it by yelling and jumping up and down.
If you need a gun to chase away a black bear I feel bad for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Griz
..
The two statements above are totally inaccurate and show complete lack of knowledge with regard to Black Bear fatality statistics and their potential danger to humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK
That's incorrect. Most bear/human encounters that result in injuries are with black bears. These bears are far from docile.
As many have stated, while the risk of being harmed by a black bear is remote, most surely there is risk. The article at the below link presents data about black bear attacks that dispels a few widely held beliefs, the main one being that sows with cubs are the primary danger. According to the research, it is the male bear in a deliberate predatory attack that is the major threat. The thought of being silently stalked by a big boar blacky determined to eat me is more chilling than is accidentally stumbling into a grizzly that really is not looking for trouble and will avoid it if it can. www.alaskadispatch.com/article/lone-predatory-black-bears-responsible-most-human-attacks
Personally I would worry more about mountain lions then bears. Make a lot of noise while your hiking and bears aren't likely to bother you. The mountain lions will actually hunt you and take you down before you even know they are around.
Maybe if you are 5 years old. Cougars seldom attack adults, but rather children because the children look like small animals. I've had several Mountain Lions track me and once they got close enough to see me, they took off, or at least stopped the track. I know this by back tracking and finding their tracks in the snow, over top of my tracks.
If you have children, or pets, then yes, Mountain Lions should be a concern.
Maybe if you are 5 years old. Cougars seldom attack adults, but rather children because the children look like small animals. I've had several Mountain Lions track me and once they got close enough to see me, they took off, or at least stopped the track. I know this by back tracking and finding their tracks in the snow, over top of my tracks.
If you have children, or pets, then yes, Mountain Lions should be a concern.
I've heard stories of mountain lions taking out adult mountain bikers
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Best Handgun Round for Bear Defense
That's incorrect. Most bear/human encounters that result in injuries are with black bears. These bears are far from docile. Since they are plentiful compared to other bear species and often roam in close proximity to humans, the result is more encounters. However, grizzly/brown bear encounters with humans results on more fatalities than black bear/human encounters.
