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You a mind reader, or just expressing your opinion?
The reason this was done to Obama & not Bush isn't because of race, wether you believe it or not.. Its because this President has an anti gun reputation, very well deserved imo. He was a senator in one of the ONLY states that REFUSE to let their citizens carry guns & is on record as opposing personal carrying of firearms. His life is more important than the other 300,000,000 of us though & worthy of protecting with dozens of them. I'm quite certain people carried guns to every presidents public events. The difference is that they carried openly to make a statement & that statement was not race related.
The racial aspects are an entirely different issue & not unexpected to people with their eyes open. Right or wrong the election of the first black man to presidency is going to outrage people with racial issues, its to be expected. Just as its to be expected that those predisposed to anti white sentiment will find a kkk member in every shadow. In case you didn't notice, in AZ there was at least one black man with a gun.
Seems like it was a bi-partisan statement to me & harmed noone in any event. Obama ought to save us some money, lay off the secret service & utilize free armed citizens for security.
I dont need to ignore or worry over it. People peacefully excercising civil rights doesn't bother me.
It is a fair arguement, however if the forum had anything to do with gun rights or even the 2nd amendment I could understand and even support it but this is all about HEALTHCARE! As for your token negro in the group he was put up to it. Iam I a Mind reader, nope but there were too many conflicting stories as to why he was there in the first place. 1. to support/protect the president b/c of the many whites that were carrying guns to his meetings. 2. He wanted to exercise his right to carry a weapon.
I hope that you were kidding regarding the assinine statement regarding laying off the SS and letting the people protect him, since some of these same people are the ones sending him death threats Now that I mentioned it you have not touched upon the question regarding the fact that he has recieved more death threats than any other president BEFORE he was elected, do think that was b/c of his policies? Of course not! Please open your eyes to the reality of racism in this country. Do you think that it will go away b/c we have a black president? Why don't you think that Colin Powell did not run when he could have beaten Bush with no probelm? To some extent I too share in your naivete regarding the american people (hopes that that will think on their own and not be lead by stupidity/fear like the last 8 years).
Oh, another thing if I lived in the state of Al Capone, Disciples, warlords, latin Kings ect and the voters wanted more gun control I would give it to them. I don't think that it is fair for you to critize the politics in a state that you do not live in. The priorties of Chicago would be alot different than the ones in Mayberry N.C
Nobody denies they exist. Except maybe you if you think they are all anti black.
People in the US have ALWAYS carried guns.
Wow, do you know anything about him? I know its hard because he has such a short career but if you are going to debate his stance of firearms you should have a clue.
From wikki,
So, he supports sueing manufacturers for the actions of criminals. But only regarding guns. You cant sue GM even though its products are used in and enable many more crime than guns.
He thinks we should reinstate the assault weapons ban even though it had zero effect, other than denying Americans a civil right.
He wants to ban semi autos & create more restrictions.
He endorsed the Illinois handgun ban.
Concealed carry is ok for retired cops he says, but not regular citizens.
Hmm, I thought a retired anything was just a normal citizen.
He thinks its possible to respect the 2nd amendment while allowing municipal & state bans.
He wants to keep guns out of major cities even though thats where people often need them most.
PA doesn't have tough gun laws.
Why would you support disarming people if they live in a place with high murder rates & alot of hate groups? the only result is to create a safe working environment for them. Unless you think that hate groups & murderers will toss their weapons because its against the law.
I'd suggest its not Robert in the twilight zone.
For one a criminal is going to get guns regardless, secondly the hate groups here in PA for the most part are not the hillbilly dumbazzez these are the new breed who for the most part deeply entrenched in government and big business...why shoot them when we can starve them, give them inadequated education, prohibit them from living in certain areas ect. Truthfully I rather them have guns and go back to the old south, b/c then at least I know who my enemies are.
Irregardless of his Ill policies they have absolutely NOTHING to do with HEALTHCARE. Now what I suggest is whenever there is an open forum on gun laws or the 2nd Amendment...feel free to bring your guns and hoop it up!
If you are going to bring up a president's pass record before he was elected to the highest office in the land, why not bring up Bush's record for electrocuting everyone that was on deathrow guilty or not? Please refer to the DNA mess in Texas. Every president has supported at least one questionable bill before they were elected to the presidency but NONE of them has gotten the as many death threats as this one....why is that....please elaborate. Bush did not even win the presidency w/o the intervention of the Supreme Court and he STILL did not have as many death threats as Obama! This is on top of all of the other stupid stuff that he did/did not do while in office. If anything by all rights the people of New Orleans alone could have followed him around the country with guns ..."exercising their right to bare arms" did it happen ....nope b/c the right wingnuts would not have it!
It is a fair arguement, however if the forum had anything to do with gun rights or even the 2nd amendment I could understand and even support it but this is all about HEALTHCARE!
I'm sure there were people at the AZ gathering protesting a lot of things. The media selected this guy because he would generate ratings. He showed up heavily armed for the same reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime
Please open your eyes to the reality of racism in this country.
I agree that there is racism. It's getting better but will never be gone. Yes, a few protesters at these different town hall meetings may be coming out because they have racist hatred towards the President himself. Most are coming out because they don't like his policies of the .gov sticking they noses into places it should not be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime
I don't think that it is fair for you to critize the politics in a state that you do not live in.
I think it is fair when the laws of a state or even a city are in violation of the constitution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime
Truthfully I rather them have guns and go back to the old south, b/c then at least I know who my enemies are.
You condem racism but then you stereotype southerners. I'd like to coin my own term 'geographicist'. So now you have a dislike for a group of people based on where they are from. Next time you are in the Memphis area, I'll take you out shooting and then go for some catfish, BBQ and sweet tea. 99.99% of us are a very hospitable group and we are proud of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime
why not bring up Bush's record for electrocuting everyone that was on deathrow guilty or not?
It was lethal injection, not the electric chair. But I do like his record on being tough on crime. I wish other states would be as tough on murderers. Did I agree with his policies as President? Not all of them. He basically invaded the country's privacy after 9/11. I don't care for secret watch lists. I didn't like his bailout of the banks right before he left office. I prefer that the .gov be as small as possible. I think they should follow Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Anything else is breaking the law.
I'm sure this feeds right into the Brady Center's concerns in America, and yet I also strongly support this guy's right to bear arms. As a rightful and righteous gun owner myself (duh! With that online name?) I initially saw nothing but stupidity in this guy's actions.
My initlal wish that we should NEVER muss up the hair of the media passed in a few minutes though, because there is, of course, a nationwide agenda to rid this country's citizens (as well as the world's citizens) of all their firearms. The current Admin is eagerly leaning over to the left and listening intently to the UN stooge sitting there, whispering "great new policy ideas" to the willing "We Know Best" types.
GoddammUltraLibbyYuppster Types!
My initial wish was also stimulated by the fact that, by and large, we quiet gun owners simply want to be left alone if we're legally OK'd to purchase, own and carry a firearm. In my current physically disabled state, I resent the idea that I should have to defend myself with my long-lost marital arts skills. Hey; that was over 40 years ago, and even then, what would I have done against some street goblin who had an illegal and stolen sawed-off 12ga? Only stupid people bring just their hands to a gunfight! Now, with a nasty case of arthritis, what exactly am I supposed to do? Call 911? Gimmee a break!
Of course no-one has the need (for now at least) to shoulder his AR in downtown USA, and given the explosive emotions attending personal firearms, this will be seen by the vast uninformed BSMs* as a radical element showing it's ever-dangerous head.
(*BSMs: Bleeting Sheeple Masses)
I would be willing to bet my life that the gun owner in this case is a perfectly safe and mature adult, not a nut-ball; perhaps the kind of guy I might even have over for BBQ, with nary a concern that he's about to "snap" and go "postal" on anyone.
Like me, he's just concerned about the media's and the Brady Center's (and now, the Baramanista Admin's) mutual desire to regulate ALL firearms, to register them and to eventually get all semi-auto firearms, no matter what they look like, off the streets. Look at California, that outstanding bastion of "zero street crime", and it's onerous firearms regulation!!
The Admin's recent purposefullies about the percentage of guns used in Mexican crimes (they claimed 96% came from the US; in fact it was 17%, but hey; what's in a number, huh?) is indicative of the tone and direction of their intentions. This guy in Arizona is simply pushing back, and expressing his legal right.
BTW, if some true nut-ball did intent to "off" the prez, even if our legal carrier fella doesn't personally like Obama's policies, I'll also bet our man in the street would open up against some assassin, well-aimed, dropping him where he stood if he tried to kill the POTUS. I mean, can the police take care of every nit-wit with a grudge? Unlikely. And despite how we're depicted in the popular media, the vast silent majority of us gunowners can distinquish between peaceful discord and shooting someone just because we don't agree with them. What makes Liberal Dems think only they have any common sense and maturity? Ahh yes, the "We Know Best" mentality in all it's glory...
Remember: In an well-armed society, the criminals are few and far between, and politeness reigns. The numbers do not lie!
Two things that would help your support of the RKBA here.
1) Don't call yourself "Rifleman". Most folks associate that term with assassin. The visualize someone with a high powered, scoped sniper rifle.
2) Stop using terms like "sheeple". It's reminiscent of skin heads and supremecists that think it's cool to work the syllable "nig-" into everything. It's a childish affectation IMHO.
Would probably be good to drop the use of "Obama-isms" too. Like "Obamageddon", etc. You know, the Limbaugh ratings getting blather.
It'd probably be best for the RKBA movement if RKBA supporters demonstrated supperior and outstanding social consideration. In other words, lead by example.
1) From reading these threads, I know that rifleman is a gunsmith so his screen name matches his profession. I've gone by the screen name IEFBR14 before which matched my profession.
What you call an 'assassin', I call a sniper which is one of the bravest members of the military. These guys go behind enemy lines without support to gather information. They are also very skilled marksmen. A lot of people hold them in high regard.
I can see where it can be taken in a derogatory fashion but it does give an accurate picture of the people who are unwilling to see that there are bad guys in this world. My mother is a perfect example of this. She doesn't even want to hear discussions of negative things. In a crisis situation she would fold like a cheap suit. If you have a better name for these type, we are open for suggestions.
Robert J, I just want to clearify something for you...I do not sterotype southerners truthfully I plan to move down there soon. What I SAID was OLD SOUTH which even you can understand is a big difference than what it is today. Now if you want to debate on the diferrence between this century and the previous one I will be eager to oblige you but I see that you are far to intelligent for that.
Ms Sheehan protest is different for one she is protesting something that is still going on and secondly the last time that I checked she was'nt carrying a gun to a healthcare rally.
As far as the government "sticking it's nose in places it should not be" what like Iraq? or maybe something close to home such as the Patriot Act?
As far as laws in other states that were/were not passed would'nt that be the concern of the people living there? They are the ones who vote those very same people in office and if they did not care for the laws that are passed they can vote those people out.
As far as electrocution vs lethal injection really! does it really make difference? I don't have a probelm with the death penalty if the legal system was completely fair...but unfortunately it is not in many cases. His policies were tough on crime (depending on who you are) but that was not the issue, the issue is and continues to be the fairness of it. How many people lost their lives b/c of the backlog of DNA samples that were lost/not done/altered in Texas? Bush knew this and it never crossed his mind to delay an execution until all of the evidence was presented. this was all that I was saying.
Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately there are still pockets of the "old south" hanging around. These are mostly people who grew up down here when things were different and they don't want to change their ways. They are dieing off quickly thank goodness.
I used Ms Sheehan as an example of using a personal protest for media attention which is exactly what this guy did. Both worked. Since Bush has left office the coverage of Ms Sheehan has dropped off dramatically. Whether the media has lost interest in her or they don't want to show Obama being protested about the war is another discussion entirely.
As for on-going, the whittling away at the 2nd Amendment has been happening for quite a while. Sears used to sell rifles in their catalogs. The 1920's limited us on fully automatic weapons. The 1960's brought in more regulations. The 1980's brought us the AWB as well as the ban on new fully automatic weapons. Currently the ATF is acting like a rogue organization. They raided Cavalry Arms and confiscated all of their inventory. It has been a year and no charges have been filed. But the inventory of a legal business is still being held. They are not answering any questions about this or any other raids.
The Patriot Act, no fly list, etc are all guilty until proven innocent. That is if you can find someone that will listen to your side of the story. The war on terror could have been handled differently also. I think it was a knee-jerk reaction. What would I have done differently? I'm not sure. I wasn't privy to the information the .gov was. All of this is my personal opinion not backed up by any hard facts.
I want a small government. The government doesn't guarantee happiness, they only guarantee that everyone can freely persue it. Yes, there will be bad times and the .gov shouldn't do anything about this. Tough times builds character whether it is a single individual or a nation.
You have a pont about laws in other states and I'll leave it alone.
Are there any people on death row or been executed that this was their only run-in with the law? If there are, then there are very few like this. Don't lead the criminal lifestyle and you have a better chance of not being charged with something you did not do.
I am a proponent of 2nd ammendment rights. I have been a gun owner.
I was always taught that you do not present a weapon,that is, you keep it holstered or slung or sheathed, unless you intend to use it. Do these folks intend to shoot someone at a town-hall meeting? Do they feel that their lives are immediately threatened at these events?
Even the 'bloodthirsty' Vikings outlawed weapons at their general assemblies.
I am a proponent of 2nd ammendment rights. I have been a gun owner.
I was always taught that you do not present a weapon,that is, you keep it holstered or slung or sheathed, unless you intend to use it. Do these folks intend to shoot someone at a town-hall meeting? Do they feel that their lives are immediately threatened at these events?
Even the 'bloodthirsty' Vikings outlawed weapons at their general assemblies.
ABQConvict
From what I've been able to tell, none of the weapons mentioned were ever "presented." AFAIK, they were all either holstered or, in the case of the man with the rifle, slung, and were not presented so as to draw upon any target.
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I'm quite certain people carried guns to every presidents public events. The difference is that they carried openly to make a statement & that statement was not race related.
Now that I mentioned it you have not touched upon the question regarding the fact that he has recieved more death threats than any other president BEFORE he was elected, do think that was b/c of his policies? Of course not! Please open your eyes to the reality of racism in this country. Do you think that it will go away b/c we have a black president? Why don't you think that Colin Powell did not run when he could have beaten Bush with no probelm? To some extent I too share in your naivete regarding the american people (hopes that that will think on their own and not be lead by stupidity/fear like the last 8 years). 
