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When visiting Norfolk I noticed that all the blacks live in one are and all the whites live in another. Coming from Manhattan NY i am not used to that. I like a little diversity. Especially as someone of mixed decent i don't want to feel as if don't fit in. Are there a lot of problems like that down there.
Yes, there's quite a bit of tension and a whole lot more racism. If you never travel outside of HR you wouldn't believe it and would think everything here is just fine, but as you experienced that is not the case.
When visiting Norfolk I noticed that all the blacks live in one are and all the whites live in another. Coming from Manhattan NY i am not used to that. I like a little diversity. Especially as someone of mixed decent i don't want to feel as if don't fit in. Are there a lot of problems like that down there.
Norfolk tends to be like that with very homogeneous areas along racial lines, Virginia Beach is a lot more evenly distributed. Mixed people are pretty common in the area particularly black/white or white/asian, hard to say if you would fit in or not, that is just more about finding friends that you share interests with... but you certainly wouldn't stand out.
I don't find racial issues to be particularly bad around here compared to other places. I have family in St Louis, there are issues there, I have family in Hawaii, there are issues there... it just depends what you are used to.
I also looked at the American Community Survey map that the New York Times puts out and found Manhattan to be very segregated in terms of where people live with the North side being almost all black, the middle and southwest being mostly white, the northeast being heavily hispanic, and the southeast part being predominately asian. I don't live there so I can't comment on how people interact, but that is what the data says.
If it is that big of a deal to you check out HR on this map and find out where the well mixed areas are. I guarantee you will find census blocks that are way more evenly distributed in Virginia Beach that 90% of what I saw in Manhattan. Maybe you are just used to a lot more population density where you see all kinds of people in a short distance.
I'm from upstate NY, and I find Hampton Roads to be much more racially diverse. The area of Newport News my family lives in has a good mix of various races, ethnicities, socioeconomic groups, etc. and everyone gets along great. It's funny, I'm originally from upstate NY, and I found it to be much more segregated than Hampton Roads. I can count on two hands the number of African-American kids I went to school with. The vast majority of staff at doctors offices, dental practices, libraries, etc. was white. Basically, if you lived in the suburbs, you pretty much dealt only with white people. Here, my family and I interact with a much more diverse group of people. I think it's great!
I noticed after living in Norfolk for 4 years that people of different backgrounds live in different neighborhoods but that since downtown is so small- as well as the other option for restaurants and nightlife; City Center in Va Beach, that that's where you end up seeing different people socialize a little more. Am in Va Beach now and suburbia seems very White around here. I think it comes down to where people can afford to live but being caucasian/hispanic myself and having moved to HR from Massachusetts, I never really noticed racial tensions. In Ma I simply could go months without seeing Black people (Somerville, MA). My daughter who is in Middle School does mention that kids gather in distinct groups there, but some "rivalry" is not uncommon at that socially awkward age. But, in general people just live side by side a little indifferently I guess.
When visiting Norfolk I noticed that all the blacks live in one are and all the whites live in another. Coming from Manhattan NY i am not used to that. I like a little diversity. Especially as someone of mixed decent i don't want to feel as if don't fit in. Are there a lot of problems like that down there.
I think I responded to you on this question in another thread, which I'm not quite sure how that happened. I really don't think so, and I am looking at it from the perspective of racial issues I've dealt with growing up in Ohio, which are far worse than anything I've experienced in Virginia (if I've experienced anything at all).
One thing I've noticed here, is that assimilation into mainstream/White culture is a lot different. Back in Ohio, you had more of a self-segregation type of thing, and for the most part, suburbs were White, inner city was Black. Not like that so much around here, unless you consider areas like Chesapeake and Virginia Beach to be suburbs. Even then, Virginia Beach is like 20% Black, and the city core of Chesapeake, South Norfolk, is about half Black, with the rest of Chesapeake not as Black, but clearly, more Black then Virginia Beach.
I did read where there was redlining in Virginia Beach, which would explain the 20% (why the number isn't a lot higher), and that areas that were primarily Black lacked basic amenities at times; water, sewage, etc. But to my earlier point, you don't have that unapologetic, belligerent, all-Black all-everything type of mentality here, from what I can tell, where people just don't want to get along. Whites and Blacks seem more cordial with each other around here.
I can't speak for New York, but Virginia seems somewhat preferable, than where I'm from, on the racial front.
Only thing that's changed back there from my understanding is that a lot of the suburbs are primarily Black now, or at least more Black than they were when I lived there, and of course, Whites are moving back into the city, and you have gentrification. But that has happened in New York as well, perhaps not in the suburbs but in neighborhoods in the outer boroughs, so I'm not really sure what the difference is.
With respect to Manhattan, could be that the few Blacks that can afford to live in that part of New York aren't self-segregating, which is a good thing. Probably are not enough of them to be able to do so anyway. You also have gentrification in Harlem, not sure about other Manhattan neighborhoods, like Dumbo, Tribeca, etc. I think I saw a few Blacks in Tribeca when I was there last summer though. Manhattan is not as accurate of a representation of redlining and other events that occurred in the 50s when the Great Migration shifted from the Northeast and the Mid-Atlantic to the Midwest and Blacks were met with hostile labor conditions, and denied loans to live in certain areas.
In my travels I've found that places like NYC, Chicago, SF, etc. appear more racially diverse as a result of their population density. You have a lot of people crowded into a small geographic area and it seems like everyone is mixing and integrating. However, if you really look further, NYC, Chicago and SF have some extremely segregated neighborhoods. When I lived in SF, I figured this out very quickly and was definitely surprised. I will say that cities like these have more ethnicities than most other places (including Norfolk), but they tend to cluster in tight-knit, homogenized neighborhoods.
Norfolk, on the other hand, has lots of neighborhoods that show a good mix races. While the number of different ethnicities in Norfolk is not as large as some cities, the ethnicities we do have here live in more integrated neighborhoods. Where I live (currently anyway) in West Ocean View is a prime example. There's a very healthy mix of folks here. Of course, there are sections of the city that are predominantly one race or ethnicity, but it's a mostly class-driven issue.
As far as racial tensions go, I can't say I see a whole lot of that here. However I'm a middle class white guy, so it's not like I'm faced with a whole lot of racism and oppression. I will say that I haven't met very many genuinely racist people here. Most of the racist people I know (which fortunately is not many at all), and this is just my experience, come from the Northeast and the Midwest. I have family from Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Indiana who are really hard to be around sometimes because of it.
My stepkids are biracial and had a tough time, here. Then, again, we chose to move to Hickory--not a good choice for them at all. Tons of people a lot less successful than we are were really quite insanely racist. Even had our yard tissued and cars tampered with in the "good neighborhood" of Etheridge Lakes. (Kids being taught bad things, maybe? Not sure.)
Unfortunately, the "Christian Right" contingency here breeds racism. They have this mixed up, unbiblical perspective because of CBN here and the number of 1st generation college whites (descendants of white working class), that minorities are taking things from them and that God has given them the charge to keep it from minorities and the government. Has nothing to do with biblical world view, but they really believe it, are largely Republican, and frighteningly unchristian and racist. You'll see this in Great Bridge, Hickory, and in parts of Virginia Beach pretty badly. Problem is that Census Data shows African-Americans in South Hampton Roads (Chesapeake, VB, Port, Norfolk, North Suffolk, Churchland) pretty much have educational and income parity with whites. So, the CBN promoted myth of the poor inner-city blacks who are taking all the government cheese and everything away from whites is not actually real here. Poverty is a bit more evenly distributed and there are tons of middle class blacks (and other minorities) but middle class African-Americans are the largest minority group here.
Some other places are better in town - Greenbrier in Chesapeake, Deep Creek (believe it or not), Northern Suffolk, Churchland, even Western Branch is sort of tolerable from a racism perspective (since, even though many older racist whites may live there, many middle and upper middle blacks sort of buffer their hatred along with the many not really racist military families who are more enlightened; plus, Portsmouth is right next door which is majority minority.) Many of the places I just mentioned, though, do not have schools that are as good as some of the more racially exclusive areas.
I grew up here and loved it, but was always sort of sheltered from racism because there are so many middle class minorities here and enough "liberal" viewpoints (not unchristian, just nicer) that you can deal with it. But, in reality, under the surface in most places, and on the surface in certain places in VB and Chesapeake (mentioned earlier), its still 1960s mindsets and hatred of me when they see me (instead of lauding my success).
Pretty sad. I kind of wish that some actual Christian churches (not so legalistic and not so politicized-grace and love churches) would emerge here. Right now, though unfortunately, to white Christians, being a Republican means being Christian and being a lot racist and willing to do things to hurt poorer people to show you are Christian. It's not even so much anymore about homosexuality and abortion since many of the Republicans in office who say they are against those things, just use that as a tool to recruit the blinded by racism white working class masses here (who ironically need and use the "social services" like SS benefits, VA benefits they are so against!). It's really more about selfishness and keeping your tax dollars to yourself and not helping others, especially those of other races regardless of history. Racism in the "Christian South" here is really quite strange. I have worked in the city (NY), though, and find the class-based racism there to be pretty tough, too. I have not felt welcome in many places in Manhattan, despite having more education than 99% of the country, and growing up upper-middle class. This race thing is a deeply entrenched, American problem that I always hope and pray will be solved.
I am not sure you can really go anywhere and escape it, though there are some places that are better than others in enabling us to avoid it for our own mental peace. Some of those places in Hampton Roads I mentioned above.
Best to you.
When visiting Norfolk I noticed that all the blacks live in one are and all the whites live in another. Coming from Manhattan NY i am not used to that. I like a little diversity. Especially as someone of mixed decent i don't want to feel as if don't fit in. Are there a lot of problems like that down there.
Plenty of racial tension in NYC to go around.
I am used to whites living in one area and blacks living in another. But I'm from Ohio, so go figure.
My stepkids are biracial and had a tough time, here. Then, again, we chose to move to Hickory--not a good choice for them at all. Tons of people a lot less successful than we are were really quite insanely racist. Even had our yard tissued and cars tampered with in the "good neighborhood" of Etheridge Lakes. (Kids being taught bad things, maybe? Not sure.)
Unfortunately, the "Christian Right" contingency here breeds racism. They have this mixed up, unbiblical perspective because of CBN here and the number of 1st generation college whites (descendants of white working class), that minorities are taking things from them and that God has given them the charge to keep it from minorities and the government. Has nothing to do with biblical world view, but they really believe it, are largely Republican, and frighteningly unchristian and racist. You'll see this in Great Bridge, Hickory, and in parts of Virginia Beach pretty badly. Problem is that Census Data shows African-Americans in South Hampton Roads (Chesapeake, VB, Port, Norfolk, North Suffolk, Churchland) pretty much have educational and income parity with whites. So, the CBN promoted myth of the poor inner-city blacks who are taking all the government cheese and everything away from whites is not actually real here. Poverty is a bit more evenly distributed and there are tons of middle class blacks (and other minorities) but middle class African-Americans are the largest minority group here.
Some other places are better in town - Greenbrier in Chesapeake, Deep Creek (believe it or not), Northern Suffolk, Churchland, even Western Branch is sort of tolerable from a racism perspective (since, even though many older racist whites may live there, many middle and upper middle blacks sort of buffer their hatred along with the many not really racist military families who are more enlightened; plus, Portsmouth is right next door which is majority minority.) Many of the places I just mentioned, though, do not have schools that are as good as some of the more racially exclusive areas.
I grew up here and loved it, but was always sort of sheltered from racism because there are so many middle class minorities here and enough "liberal" viewpoints (not unchristian, just nicer) that you can deal with it. But, in reality, under the surface in most places, and on the surface in certain places in VB and Chesapeake (mentioned earlier), its still 1960s mindsets and hatred of me when they see me (instead of lauding my success).
Pretty sad. I kind of wish that some actual Christian churches (not so legalistic and not so politicized-grace and love churches) would emerge here. Right now, though unfortunately, to white Christians, being a Republican means being Christian and being a lot racist and willing to do things to hurt poorer people to show you are Christian. It's not even so much anymore about homosexuality and abortion since many of the Republicans in office who say they are against those things, just use that as a tool to recruit the blinded by racism white working class masses here (who ironically need and use the "social services" like SS benefits, VA benefits they are so against!). It's really more about selfishness and keeping your tax dollars to yourself and not helping others, especially those of other races regardless of history. Racism in the "Christian South" here is really quite strange. I have worked in the city (NY), though, and find the class-based racism there to be pretty tough, too. I have not felt welcome in many places in Manhattan, despite having more education than 99% of the country, and growing up upper-middle class. This race thing is a deeply entrenched, American problem that I always hope and pray will be solved.
I am not sure you can really go anywhere and escape it, though there are some places that are better than others in enabling us to avoid it for our own mental peace. Some of those places in Hampton Roads I mentioned above.
Best to you.
Excellent points. But if the OP thinks this is any better than the people up North running NYC they are very mistaken. Just because it isn't ultra/neoconservative up there doesn't mean that Blacks and Whites are singing Kumbaya.
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