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I've been doing a lot of thinking about my life and how I'd like to move somewhere beautiful. Life is too short. I'm 39 and perhaps mid life crisis is setting in...
I'm thinking of Atlanta, GA, as well as Hawaii, but obviously Hawaii would be much more amazing. I'm really only considering Atlanta because the cost of living is quite low there. I realize these two options: Hawaii and Atlanta, GA, are "worlds apart" but I guess it comes down to my practical vs. dreamer/idealist parts of my brain
I'm originally from the east coast, Boston and NYC/NJ. Right now I'm living in Santa Fe, NM, for a short time while checking in on aging parents. I want to live here, in Santa Fe, another year and make a break for Hawaii in the Fall of 2011.
I'm accustomed to a high cost of living since Boston, New York and Santa Fe are all pretty high. But I'm very hopeful some of you out there could give me some real life figures, true dollar amounts, about living in Hawaii. I certainly do not want a higher cost of living than what I experienced in Boston and NYC/NJ...those areas kind of broke me. My property taxes in NJ were $1200 per month! Seriously. And the mortgage was triple that. I am looking to downsize and have a simpler and happier life. Away from the rat race (I suppose everyone says this about moving to Hawaii and it must seem a cliche...)
I would plan to rent an apartment for at least 1 year, to get to know the island. I am assuming the Big Island is best for someone transplanting but please let me know if you think I should look at Maui or other islands.
My work: I am self employed. I have an online retail business, so I can do it from where ever I live. One important question about this: I do a great deal of shipping via USPS regular mail. My customers are worldwide but mostly in the United States. Is the mail service especially slow from Hawaii to other parts of the US and internationally or is it simply a quick flight and you find your mail arriving at it's destination on time?
Financials~~ what are your typical costs for the following:
2 bed / 2 bath apartment (go ahead and compare city vs. country, I mostly need to be close to a post office. I don't need to be in the most trendy/upscale areas, I'm over that!)
Gas, Food, Utilities, etc.
I do not have children, don't need to know about school systems, but would like to understand the crime/safety of various neighborhoods.
And
if I do move to Hawaii and I do rent for awhile and then decide to buy...are all the houses 1 million dollars? I don't want to love it there and then end up not being able to purchase a decent home (to me a decent home is 3 bd 2.5 bath with a small yard)
You have no idea how much I appreciate your responses. Thank you
Last edited by wanderer71; 09-19-2010 at 03:18 AM..
I just moved to Maui a few months ago. Here are some rough monthly figures from me (just me and my wife in household).
3BR 2.5 Baths with nice small yard, 2-car garage, 2 floors - $2300/month
Groceries - $600 (we really love organic food)
Gas (2 cars) - $230
Electric - $110 (first bill...I'm sure it'll be higher next month)
TV - $40
Internet - $36
Cellphone - $200 (two smartphones with data plans)
Average decent home here seems ~$500-600K.
Maui is very safe...except maybe "Happy Valley" and its meth-addicts.
Pros of Maui:
- Perfect weather and scenery
- Nice people with great community-feeling
- No traffic
- Safe
- Diversity of people
- Lots of outdoor activities to do (surfing, scuba, kite-surfing, etc)
Cons of Maui:
- Far from old friends/family on East Coast (e.g. can't do a weekend trip to watch the U.S. Open tennis tournament)
- A bit more expensive than average (comparable to NYC or Boston, but you get more space and yard for your money)
- Not well-diversified economy (thus, terrible economy since tourism got hit hard)
- Scarcity of "sophisticated" nightlife (more important if you're single)
- Slow and more expensive shipping (this is of particular of concern for you)
- Not great healthcare (mainly because of poor support from the State)
- I don't have kids, but hear private schools are only way to go here
- Some people don't think you're going to stick around here, so they don't bother befriending you
- Not easy to do non-Hawaii activities (e.g. not many big-name concerts, etc)
For you, since you have a very mobile job, why not just rent for 6 months in a condo/apartment. You'll know in the first 3 months whether or not you could live here. The hardest part of moving anywhere, in my opinion, is being away from family and friends.
Everyone talks about the price of milk on these forums, but it's really about whether or not you feel like a part of the community in Hawaii...that makes you happy or miserable.
Btw, I love it here! (one caveat: having more money definitely helps in enjoying Hawaii)
Wanderer, it sounds from your post that you haven't been to Hawaii. I suggest that you plan a visit of several weeks to visit the various islands. You could live in an ultra-urban place like Honolulu, or a very rural place like areas of the Big Island. So answers to your questions are going to vary widely. Vicious gave you a very good answer about where he lives and what his lifestyle is like on Maui. Where we live on the Big Island real estate is much cheaper but other costs are quite high because we have to drive an hour and a half to get to either Kona or Hilo. So it all really depends on what kind of lifestyle you would like to have.
re: shipping - if you are shipping small items, the USPS flat rate boxes are great. I always crack up when sometimes I try to order something and they "don't ship to Hawaii" like it's a foreign country. the US PO is here just like in every other state!
You definitely need to plan a trip of a few weeks to visit around various spots on the islands that appeal to you. Bring plenty of money 'cause you're gonna need it.
There are nice houses for sale here from $300K to $400K - many of which are REOs and short sales. Rental of a 2/2 unfurnished condo right in Kailua Kona in a newer community with a pool etc., would run you about $1000 to $1400/month depending on the exact one. Some include utilities, some do not. A rental house 2 or 3 BR and 1 or 2 baths, maybe around $1200 and up.
You will need a vehicle on the BI, Kauai or Maui because there isn't much public transportation. If you live near or in town, a good moped would probably suffice.
About education, my 2 cents worth is, that it has a very low priority amongst many residents that is generations long. "If my child gets an excellent education then he will leave the islands.........." is the prevailing sentiment. Sad but true.
We moved FROM Atlanta to Hawaii - hated Atlanta after a while - crime, traffic, just too many people. Live on the Big Island. Very, very expensive but the trade off was worth it. Much less stressful. Nice weather year round. Yes, seeing friends and relatives is much harder but we have found because we are such a nice destination, they have all come to us which they didn't do when we lived in Atlanta. Nice houses here can be found in the high $300k's; mailing is expensive and slow. An "overnight" package from here to Georgia took 3 days. Since you can do your job anywhere, the advice to move for 6 months to get a feel is sound. Electricity is high - and we don't use air conditioning. Gas is high but there is a Costco here and that helps a lot.
I just moved to Maui a few months ago. Here are some rough monthly figures from me (just me and my wife in household).
3BR 2.5 Baths with nice small yard, 2-car garage, 2 floors - $2300/month
Groceries - $600 (we really love organic food)
Gas (2 cars) - $230
Electric - $110 (first bill...I'm sure it'll be higher next month)
TV - $40
Internet - $36
Cellphone - $200 (two smartphones with data plans)
Average decent home here seems ~$500-600K.
Maui is very safe...except maybe "Happy Valley" and its meth-addicts.
Pros of Maui:
- Perfect weather and scenery
- Nice people with great community-feeling
- No traffic
- Safe
- Diversity of people
- Lots of outdoor activities to do (surfing, scuba, kite-surfing, etc)
Cons of Maui:
- Far from old friends/family on East Coast (e.g. can't do a weekend trip to watch the U.S. Open tennis tournament)
- A bit more expensive than average (comparable to NYC or Boston, but you get more space and yard for your money)
- Not well-diversified economy (thus, terrible economy since tourism got hit hard)
- Scarcity of "sophisticated" nightlife (more important if you're single)
- Slow and more expensive shipping (this is of particular of concern for you)
- Not great healthcare (mainly because of poor support from the State)
- I don't have kids, but hear private schools are only way to go here
- Some people don't think you're going to stick around here, so they don't bother befriending you
- Not easy to do non-Hawaii activities (e.g. not many big-name concerts, etc)
For you, since you have a very mobile job, why not just rent for 6 months in a condo/apartment. You'll know in the first 3 months whether or not you could live here. The hardest part of moving anywhere, in my opinion, is being away from family and friends.
Everyone talks about the price of milk on these forums, but it's really about whether or not you feel like a part of the community in Hawaii...that makes you happy or miserable.
Btw, I love it here! (one caveat: having more money definitely helps in enjoying Hawaii)
-V
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR RESPONSE!
The issue of slow shipping is really a cause for concern for my business. If a package takes several days longer to reach its destination I can see this negatively impacting my business. from your responses I see this as the #1 concern because without my income I can't do much in Hawaii.
Also, I find most of your expenses fairly reasonable, except for the rent. $2300 is steep. That's the kind of rent I paid in NYC/NJ but at least there I knew I could get a high paying job. For me, in Hawaii, I would be self employed and I'm fearful of being able to afford the housing now.
Wanderer, it sounds from your post that you haven't been to Hawaii. I suggest that you plan a visit of several weeks to visit the various islands. You could live in an ultra-urban place like Honolulu, or a very rural place like areas of the Big Island. So answers to your questions are going to vary widely. Vicious gave you a very good answer about where he lives and what his lifestyle is like on Maui. Where we live on the Big Island real estate is much cheaper but other costs are quite high because we have to drive an hour and a half to get to either Kona or Hilo. So it all really depends on what kind of lifestyle you would like to have.
I actually have been to Hawaii. Three times. But every time it was vacation and I wasn't looking at it as a potential place to live. So I enjoyed the beaches and all the touristy stuff but didn't get to understand what "living in HI" would be like. I think it's easy to vacation in HI and entirely miss the true local culture and understand it's actually a state and not just an island getaway. I have been to Honolulu (for a few weeks) and Maui (just a 2 wk vacay) and then Maui again (for 1 wk)
My rent for a fully furnished 2br 2bath vacation rental $1200. Includes electric, Sat TV, DSL internet, monthly maid service, lawn service, GET tax. 24k sf lot. Nice house, built in the early 90's in a nice section of a subdivision. We just re-upped for another year and got a couple concessions added in.
Its the economy! It is so easy to lock in a really low rate. There are so many owners of second homes/vacation rentals that are afraid of losing their investment that they will DEAL.
The downside to your business - mail/shipping times suck. Period. Regular mail to mainland is 7-10 days. I even send the rent checks via 3 day priority at nearly $5 for the envelope.
There is no such thing as "overnight mail to this island! It takes a minimum of 2 days.
One plus if you ship FedEx or UPS - rates from islands to mainland are way cheaper than rates from mainland to island.
I don't agree that shipping is all that slow here. Family and friends are constantly sending me packages and letters and on average from the east cost, flat rate boxes take 3-5 days to get here. I have never felt that shipping was slower here, even with online purchases.
However, I will say that when we make large purchases for work (computer items, construction items, etc) these items can take time to get here- especially if they are coming by boat.
I'm on Maui, and regular first class mail to California is only 3 days at most. I suppose it depends on the destination, but it has never taken 7-10 days for first class or flat rate. Even a package from Maui to CA back country (Oakhurst) took only 3 days for Priority Mail.
Now it has taken WEEKS if someone sends something via Parcel Post. That's via ship, and a package from Kansas took at least 6 weeks to get here. I think it must have gone land from Kansas to CA then via ship to Oahu then barge to Maui.
If you are shipping items out from your business, if they can fit into USPS Flat Rate boxes, or first class envelopes, then the price is the same. If you have to ship via FedEx or UPS, then you're going to find a significant increase in shipping costs.
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