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There are a lot of threads here that say schools in Hawaii are bad. In my opinion, there is more to it than poor schools. Parents need to be more involved in teaching their children. Instead of griping about the schools, get involved! Help out at school! Get on the school board! Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way!
The trend nowadays is for parents to be their children's friends instead of their parents! We get on our daughter about that with our granddaughter (they both live with us at present). Children need to be taught to respect their elders, and also their peers. Anyone here remember when children would say "Yes ma'am, Yes sir" instead of "Yeah"?
Schools need to get back to teaching the basic 3 Rs - readin' and 'ritin' and 'rithmetic - see: National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences - Kids Pages - School Days, School Days (http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/games/songs/childrens/schooldaysmid.htm - broken link) . Too many colleges have to have remedial courses for the 3 Rs before students can take courses in their field of study. From Study: More College Students Need Remedial Classes « CBS Minnesota :
Quote:
ST. PAUL (WCCO) — A recent study shows that as many as 40 percent of public high school students who enter a public college or university has to take at least one remedial course in reading, writing or math.
The report was conducted by the University of Minnesota and Minnesota State Colleges and Universities. Forty percent is an all-time high for Minnesota and not everyone is shocked by it.
“I am not surprised by that. I wish there were some high schools who would prepare people better for college … if they want their students to go on to college,” said University of Minnesota student Erin Cowles.
Ten years ago, 30 percent of public college or university students were taking a remedial course. Now, it’s up to 40 percent and possibly growing.
Don't pass them because they would "feel bad about themselves" if you don't. Get back to grades that are a measure of how well they are learning a subject, and use that to help them learn the subject.
Don't worry so much about "how will the move affect the kids". They are kids and will adapt! I was born in 1938 and things were different when I was growing up than they are today. When we moved, several times due to jobs, etc., we kids were not asked about it. We were just told we were moving. Remember, if you are where you want to be doing the job you want you will be treating your children better because of your attitude. Also, in a few years they will be adults and will either stay where you move, or move somewhere on their own.
We lived in the city with all that goes with it - stores close by, buses, street cars (remember them?) and so on. We lived in the country with cows, mules, chickens, ducks, rabbits and horses. I had to feed, water and milk cows before and after school. When dad ran a sawmill on our property cutting ties for the railroad, I got a chance to be on one end of a two man crosscut saw - that was when I was in the first and second grade in a one room schoolhouse. We had well water, and an outhouse.
We all had chores! That helped keep us out of trouble and taught us responsibility and how to do things that we would need later in life.
We, as a country, need to get off the kick of "it's for the kids" and remember that the best we can do for our kids is teach them the basics, teach them to respect others, and teach them how to learn. Teach them the "Golden Rules". Teach them the Constitution. Don't insist they attend college if it seems they are more interested in "the trades". Let them attend a "trade school" or apprentice program. We have lost too many that "do things" and turned into a country of "service jobs". Why should your son/daughter be a banker/office manager/pick-your-own if they would rather be a auto or aircraft or boat mechanic or other trade? And we should insist that people do not "look down" on people without a college education!
Teach them that the latest "things" are not important. The latest X-box and so on may be nice to have if you can afford them, but it's not a necessity. We didn't have all the toys that are out there today. In fact, we made our own toys. We've made toy boats, rubber band guns, model airplanes, rockets (try buying the stuff to make rocket fuel today), rebuilt/modified bicycles, made motor scooters with old lawnmower engines and, as we got older, learned to work on our own cars, built hot-rods, etc. etc. etc.
Yeah, this is a long rant but I'm tired of the "How will moving affect the kids" instead of "How will moving affect me/us", and how bad the schools are in Hawaii.
As you might guess, I've had this on my mind and have been thinking about it for a long, long time.
Now go ahead and flame me all you want. I've had 73 years to grow a thick skin and I have my Nomex flame resistant clothing at hand.
It would be better, however, to discuss how all y'all can make the schools better, how to make a move to Hawaii better for your family's well being and how to make it affordable to live in Hawaii - possibly by forgetting "lifestyle" and "keeping up with the Joneses".
Back in the 1970s when I was growing up in Hawai'i, my parents had a koa paddle that had "Board of Education" imprinted on it. That particular "Board of Education" was way more "effective" than the current one that consists of overpaid bureaucrats.
I don't want to confuse you with too many facts but the state of Hawaii is consistently rated as being in the bottom 5 percent of public schools.
Getting "involved" doesn't help when your child is in 6th grade and being taught at a 3rd grade level. Talking to the teacher doesn't help, they have 20 dummies in their class how are they going to take special time with your child who is at the proper intelligence level? "Getting involved" with their homework doesn't help because they are bringing home 3rd grade homework. Teachers here regularly speak pidgeon in class as well. It's like they are trying to fail these children.
You have a few real options if you decide to live on Maui and have children.
Private schools
home school
5 day a week private tutor for after school
"Getting involved" is a generic term that is meaningless in the real context of the problem. It's the equivalent of saying, "can't we all get along" when talking about wars. It sounds good but accomplishes very little.
I talk to parents all the time who had children go to public schools here than go to a mainland college and are just getting creamed. They are so far behind they are failing out of school.
Mickey, what Hawaii public schools did you send your child to? I would like to hear your hawaii school stories.
The trend nowadays is for parents to be their children's friends instead of their parents!
I have a very good friend and a niece as well, who are both teachers. One in Oregon and one in Washington State. Both are considering getting out of the profession very seriously. My friend used to LOVE to be a teacher. However, these days she has begun to hate it. She says that the kids are out of control and disrespectful. She gets absolutely no support from the parents and the school administration seems to have given up. My niece, who lives about 300 miles away is feeling the exact same way and their stories sound almost identical.
I don't want to confuse you with too many facts but the state of Hawaii is consistently rated as being in the bottom 5 percent of public schools.
Getting "involved" doesn't help when your child is in 6th grade and being taught at a 3rd grade level. Talking to the teacher doesn't help, they have 20 dummies in their class how are they going to take special time with your child who is at the proper intelligence level? "Getting involved" with their homework doesn't help because they are bringing home 3rd grade homework. Teachers here regularly speak pidgeon in class as well. It's like they are trying to fail these children.
You have a few real options if you decide to live on Maui and have children.
Private schools
home school
5 day a week private tutor for after school
"Getting involved" is a generic term that is meaningless in the real context of the problem. It's the equivalent of saying, "can't we all get along" when talking about wars. It sounds good but accomplishes very little.
I talk to parents all the time who had children go to public schools here than go to a mainland college and are just getting creamed. They are so far behind they are failing out of school.
Mickey, what Hawaii public schools did you send your child to? I would like to hear your hawaii school stories.
mauidude, "facts" don't confuse me, general statements do. You would be surprised how many are homeschooling here on the mainland because they are not satisfied with their school systems.
Getting involved is not a generic term. It means go to the PTA/PTO meetings - if there are none, start one. Meet with the teachers to discuss the students progress. Volunteer at school. My daughter volunteers at our granddaughter's school. Run for the school board. Vote!
Did you really read what I wrote? Schools all over the United States are doing poorly! Even the "good" schools are turning out students that have not learned the basics. Why do you think colleges have to have remedial courses? Why do you think employers are complaining that their employees can't read or write properly?
There is nothing wrong with speaking pidgin in class at times, as long as the students are taught the basics of English. We are one of the few countries in the world that are not bilingual. Now how did you determine that there were 20 dummies in the class? Did you give them an intelligence test? Maybe they were not motivated to learn. Why not help find ways to motivate them?
My dad only went through the sixth grade, but he worked and provided for our family. He ran a shear at North American Aviation, cutting skins for aircraft. He won several suggestion awards for working out new ways to do something, such as a better layout on the sheet aluminum when cutting parts that saved material and created less scrap per sheet. All on a sixth grade education - and what he taught himself.
I did not go to school in Hawaii! My kids did not go to school in Hawaii! I started school in a one room schoolhouse in a Southern Ohio county. It had grades 1 through 5 at that time in one room. I later went to grade school, middle school and high school in a small town. We didn't have a teacher for the "shop" classes I was interested in taking, but I did get the basics of language, math and history with some Spanish thrown in for a foreign language. I could have taken French or Latin too. I didn't go to college, but went to technical school. I started my work life working in electronics - back when there were vacuum tubes in equipment. When I retired, I was working in electronics, still but now repairing computers from mainframes and their peripherals to desktops and their peripherals.
My kids went to a decent school system, but we still were involved. I worked a full time job and a part time job, my wife worked a full time job, then later ran a day care center at our home - which is a full time job. We still took part in parent-teacher meetings, went to school functions, took the kids to school functions, etc. It wasn't all easy either. Our son would do his homework and we knew he did because we watched him, then he would not turn it in. He always gave the teacher an excuse. We found his completed homework in the bottom of his locker. We also had to take him to school and make sure he went to class by informing the administration that he was there, otherwise he would go in the front door and out the back. He would rather get together with "friends" and party! We made sure he got his diploma even though he had to go to summer school to make enough points to graduate in his senior year. He is 37 now and he will still tell us he is glad we were that involved with his schooling.
Both our daughters worked during high school. They both worked at McDonalds, then later both worked at a retirement center assisting the elderly residents. Our youngest didn't go to college, but got other jobs and continued working. Our oldest daughter did go to college while still working part time and is now working at a good full time job too.
I'm retired and I still work a part time job. Helps keep the 73 year old brain in good shape. We also are going to our granddaughter's school functions, and sometimes my wife will go with our daughter to the parent-teacher conferences.
Follow along with a young teacher that moved to Hawaii this year at Living In Hawaii - Our Journey: Intro . Maybe she can shed some light on teaching in Hawaii, and what she is finding there.
If you are that worried about the schools in Hawaii, find out what you can do to help. Others on here have. Just don't keep endlessly complaining without doing something about it.
Too bad you aren't even able to respect your adult children enough to not judge and verbally abuse them about how they choose to treat their own children. I'm glad that young people today don't all feel a need to give respect to nasty old people who hate and feel intense jealousy for the younger generations and don't respect them at all, want them to be physically assaulted with wooden objects.
Schools do not need to "get back" to basic things, arts and music programs are already being cut back as official policy in order to only teach to standardized tests; so actually, what you want to "get back to" is what we currently have and is failing miserably. What Hawaii needs is more progressive schools, not ones outlined by right wing identity politics. People who want their teenage children to be exploited by fast food corporations instead of having them study are a part of the problem.
Bottom Line; your parenting advice is abusive, insensitive, outdated, callous, cruel, and unproductive. I hope no one listens to it. Changing parenting methods that moved away from violence, both verbal and physical, have produced the least violent, most peaceful and kind world in human history. This trend needs to continue to the point where children are viewed as people with rights and deserving to have their feelings, personhood, and natural desire to learn respected and cultivated instead of crushed by child-hating attitudes.
Potential transfers to Hawaii; please consult and think of your kids before destroying their lives via a stupid move.
Wow, pretty dense thread with some good issues. I'm leaning toward Vaedrem's side, though I get where MickeyE is coming from.
On the root issue, moving to Hawaii with kids, I think it is wise to consider the children, though not necessarily their vote in the matter. Both my brother and I moved around a lot as kids, and ended up going to HS in a place that was barely better then than HI is today (suburbs of Phoenix in the 80's). And though we lived in places that enriched us incredibly (Europe), we both ended up with varying degrees of social problems. Granted, those issues were genetic and family related (we would've been computer nerds wherever we grew up), but breaking our circle of friends twice had lasting effects on our social development.
So I think kids do matter, and you have to be honest with yourself about their character and whether they can deal with it. Kids who are less outgoing will have a harder time. Computers and video games are certainly popular everywhere, but kids who don't want to be outdoors (or shouldn't be because they are very fair-skinned) will have trouble fitting in.
I agree with Mickey E that not everybody needs to pushed toward college right out of HS, but I think they should be following a passion or at least working towards something, not working at McD's to get by. I also agree there are definite problems with teaching to tests, classroom sizes, uninvovled parents, and low standards in Hawaii. But this whole thing about not being your kids' best friend is more of a sound-bite than a parenting technique. I agree there are pitfalls to the new parenting trends, but I have to agree with Vaedrem that it is the evolution of parenting for the better.
When I hear the many 'Hawaii has bad schools'....what I'd like to know, is where can someone go for GOOD SCHOOLS anywhere in the U.S.? I've heard of them pretty much ONLY in very wealthy neighborhoods around major urban cities (i.e. expensive places of the 1%).
If I were to live in LA or DC or NYC or wherever else, it's unlikely I'll be living in the best neighborhoods anyways to get kids into a great school.
So, what's REALLY the difference if its Hawaii or (insert random mediocre place here).
I'm not sure if there is any large area on the mainland which has good schools since it seems the mainland schools are supported on a town or township level so depending on which town you were in, it could have a good school or not. In Hawaii, all the schools are on a statewide level so they all work from the same administration.
Too bad you aren't even able to respect your adult children enough to not judge and verbally abuse them about how they choose to treat their own children.
I don't agree or disagree - but I'm kind of lost of who's post you have issue with as you didn't quote anything - which post and what in the post do you have issue with, that is a pretty big accusation.
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