The real truth behind food in hawaii vs the mainland, believe it or not, we ship to them..... (Honolulu: insurance, exemptions)

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

Ok, I know this has nothing to do with Hawai'i, but since there seems to be people here that know a lot more than I do about beef, I thought I would ask. When I was a kid we would raise our own cattle, chickens, pigs etc... and I used to love steak! Now, steak has an bad taste to me, kind of like liver. A friend of mine suggested I give Ruth Chris Steak House a try, and same thing. Once you chewed the seasoning off... YUK! Anyone know why this is?

It's all the hormones injected into mainland American cattle. They're injected the stuff to make them grow faster. Additionally, dairy cows are given genetically-engineered hormone called rBGH to increase milk production.

The six hormones - Oestradiol, Progesterone and Testosterone—and three which are synthetic—Zeranol, Trenbolone, and Melengestrol.

The European Union is regularly trying to block american beef, due to the health risks. (It's already banned in Europe for their people to inject those hormones in their own cattle - but it's not in the U.S.) Mostly say all the hormones increase the breast, prostate and colon cancers in the U.S.

I'm not sure where else it's banned or trying to be banned. But when I lived in South Korea, they were also trying to ban it, but the U.S. is so powerful, I don't think they were ever long-term successful. But even with the u.s. gov't is able to push it's trade on to others, I noticed a regular reluctance to eat any meat with a 'made in America' label.

Most all the Koreans I knew, always said that when they went to North America (Canada has similar pro-hormone habits on it's cattles), that it tasted less like meat, and something synthetic or not quite right.

Fruits are another one - way too many pesticides, and almost impossible to wash out all those pesticides by the time they get to the consumer.

[Huckleberry3911948]

during my visits to hawaii (recently) i did not see large numbers of locals chowing down on steak, in fact existence was pretty hand to mouth for the non rich.
food is approx double in hawaii its approx triple in japan.

[V-Mutt]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

Ok, I know this has nothing to do with Hawai'i, but since there seems to be people here that know a lot more than I do about beef, I thought I would ask. When I was a kid we would raise our own cattle, chickens, pigs etc... and I used to love steak! Now, steak has an bad taste to me, kind of like liver. A friend of mine suggested I give Ruth Chris Steak House a try, and same thing. Once you chewed the seasoning off... YUK! Anyone know why this is?

Yes... but you're going to be sorry you asked.

The short answer is because the overwhelming majority of beef now available is a fully commoditized product. The characteristics selected for that product have as much, if not more, to do with commercial viability (i.e. lowest total life cycle costs) than they do with any other single variable. Flavor is an important variable, but it ultimately has to conform to the underlying production economics. If it tastes great but can't be sold at a profit, guess where you're not going to be seeing that beef?

Now for the long answer. There are a bunch of variables which affect beef flavor. Here are just a few:

• Genetics matter - Most of the breeds of cattle in large scale production today got there because they performed relatively better within the feedlot production model. There are numerous genetic lines that have superior flavor profiles but tend to kick the bucket when crammed into confined feeding/finishing operations.
  
• You are what you eat - And so are cows. Cows evolved on grassland plains. Guess what they were eating there??? Yup, mostly grasses and the occasional seedheads from those grasses. However, the cows happen to have a strong preference for grass which has not yet gone to seed because the grass is much sweeter and also has much higher mineral content. Once grass starts to seed, all the plant's energy is directed toward that activity, the nutrient levels in the grass blades drop and the grass flavor becomes bland. Since most commercial beef is now produced in feedlots on a diet of corn, it ain't going to taste the same. In fact, a corn diet is disastrous for the cow's rumen (stomach). It creates severe pH imbalances which cause ulcerations. One of the reasons the beef industry is the nation's largest consumer of pharmaceutical antibiotics is because of the need to feed it to the cattle to fend off opportunistic infections in the stomach which will kill the cow before reaching slaughter weight.
  
• Athletes vs. couch potatoes - Movement affects the flavor of the meat. But, it also causes the muscle tissue to become fibrous which makes the meat tough rather than tender. You can see this in the various cuts of meat available to you at the store. The most tender cuts come from the central back area of the cow which really doesn't experience a lot of movement. These cuts also have more subtle, lighter flavors when compared to the shoulder area pot roasts and rear leg round roasts which are consequently a bit tougher but more flavorful. Feedlot cattle have very limited movement by design. They don't want the cows burning up calories which would otherwise be stored as body mass. And, they yield more tender cuts of beef which unfortunately are a bit less flavorful.
  
• High stress world - This is probably the biggest contributor to the flavor phenomenon you described. Just like humans, cows exhibit a variety of responses to being placed under stress which include tensing of muscles/production of lactic acid and the release of adrenal hormones (amongst others). Any guesses as to what the presence of these hormones and acids do to the muscle tissue? They leave minute bio-chemical residues whose flavor signatures are predominantly sour or bitter. If you wanted to create a high stress environment for cows, you probably couldn't do much better than what you'll find in the typical confined feedlot operation. Those conditions couldn't be more antithetical to the pastoral habitat cows were imprinted with in their evolutionary development.

So, there you have it. It seems like we've veered off from the original topic.

If we continue along this thread, we're going to have to start issuing everyone their Master's degrees from "Cow-Tech".

[McFrostyJ]

Thanks for all the great info! Wish it would let me rep you guys more!

[Flame Angel]

Originally Posted by V-Mutt

You can keep saying it over and over again. But, it won't change the inaccuracy your original statements.

Not only is it possible to produce USDA Prime grade marbling from cattle on an exclusive grass diet, it's currently being achieved across the country, including in Hawaii. Considering this, the belief that a diet without corn or some other grain results in Utility Grade beef is not credible.

Simply because corn is the primary feed employed by large scale, commercial beef producers to fatten their cattle, it's a logical fallacy to infer this is the only method which can achieve the gold standard of USDA Prime. There are some serious issues associated with the conventional commercial beef production model. The recognition of the gravity of these issues are what fueled all the work done to create an equivalent or better beef product from an exclusively grass-based diet.

No, I agree. You could use Bon Bon's or caviar, but in the real world, my assertion stands, i.e.
It IS the corn.

Real world reality, not theoretical possibility. In America it is corn that feeds the cows of the feed lots where the better grades come from. It seems that you have an agenda lurking somewhere between the lines. However, we seem to have strayed.

[hotzcatz]

I'm noticing a big trend towards folks buying their food closer to the production source. Instead of going to Safeway, Foodland or any other grocery store, they are heading towards the farmer's markets, roadside stands, the Asian markets that buy from local farmers, etc. I'm seeing more folks interested in planting gardens and raising city chickens. Rabbits are a good meat source that is good to raise in small quarters. You can have a small garden and feed the rabbits from the parts of the plants you don't want to eat. Each meal you produce on your own is one less meal shipped in to the islands. If everyone produced half of one of their meals a day, that would be a one sixth drop in the amount of imported food. If everyone managed to produce one meal a day or half of two of their meals a day, then the food imports would drop by one third. This, of course, would lower the tax revenues since sales would go down so I'm also noticing a trend towards legislature to make food production more difficult and illegal. It will be interesting to see where we are in twenty years.

[KauaiHiker]

hotzcatz wrote: "food imports would drop by one third. This, of course, would lower the tax revenues."

I think that personal production will always be limited, especially among the majority of the population in cities and on Oahu. Small local farms, however, to an even greater extent than the current market farmers, are a real possibly that I always support. In the case of imported food, the out-of-state producer get money, the out-of-state chain gets money, the local employee gets money, and the state gets excise tax on import and resale. In the case of local food, the state will get less on the food transactions, but local population will get more money, which will circulate and stimulate the local economy and provide more taxable transactions for the state (importing and selling garden/farm supplies).

[KauaiHiker]

Forgot to address this: "I'm also noticing a trend towards legislature to make food production more difficult and illegal."

I think you're right: in the name of food safety, they are protecting the factory food production and distribution networks. That obviously needs to be exposed. But there needs to be a balance: you still want adequate regulation of small local producers, especially if they are expanding to provide more food to more people in this new economy.

[Tiger Beer]

Source: Can You Guess What McDonald

This doesn't explain mainland food...

But this is what processed chicken looks like. The same stuff that is made in McDonalds, and often made for stores - frozen chickens, tv dinners, etc.

Here's what happens. The entire chicken is smashed and pressed through a sieve — bones, eyes, guts, and all. That looks like the picture. Sut since it's crawling with bacteria, its than soaked in ammonia. But since the taste is so far gone, it's than reflavored artificially. Then, because its bright pink, its than dyed with artificial color.

No wonder cancer rates are skyrocketing across the States.

[V-Mutt]

Originally Posted by Flame Angel

No, I agree. You could use Bon Bon's or caviar, but in the real world, my assertion stands, i.e.
It IS the corn.

Real world reality, not theoretical possibility. In America it is corn that feeds the cows of the feed lots where the better grades come from. It seems that you have an agenda lurking somewhere between the lines. However, we seem to have strayed.

Oh puh-leeze... now you're simply being obstinate.

Of course I have an agenda, just like every other human on this planet! What's really curious is the fact that your posts here and in other threads seem to demonstrate a profound level of discomfort with anyone whose views/experiences/beliefs don't conform to your viewpoint. You offer only the most schematic and tenuous basis for your beliefs, inevitably encounter resistance from these folks you're trying to persuade and then resort to attempts at demeaning or vilifying them. Exactly what, other than significant frustration, are you attempting to gain by participating in a public forum with lots of people from a broad diversity of backgrounds?