Household Income to Make It In Hawaii...

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf

Do you honestly believe that the way you present yourself and write doesn't matter when it comes to promotions?

It might only be a factor for promotions but where I have always worked bad grammar and presentation skills usually leads you to being fired.

[ChezAloha]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

It might only be a factor for promotions but where I have always worked bad grammar and presentation skills usually leads you to being fired.

Somewhere in an organization that pays their engineers six figures there is at least one technical writer (who is definitely not making six figures) correcting the spelling and grammar for those engineers and making their work suitable for publication or presentation. Bad spelling and grammar does not get an engineer fired or even keep them from being promoted (says the wife of a technical writer for a Fortune 500 company who made the best and the brightest actually look good and bright).

I agree that there may possibly be other issues with the engineer's income and how he spends it.

[whtviper1]

Having a technical writer fix bad grammar for engineers is not a common luxury. And since I've terminated engineers for bad grammar and an inability to put together a presentation, it happens. I'd never hire a technical writer just to fix bad grammar. That isn't what most technical writers are hired to do. Plenty of engineers can spell.

In today's digital world, grammar is essential regardless of what you do.

[ChezAloha]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Having a technical writer fix bad grammar for engineers is not a common luxury. And since I've terminated engineers for bad grammar and an inability to put together a presentation, it happens. I'd never hire a technical writer just to fix bad grammar. That isn't what most technical writers are hired to do. Plenty of engineers can spell.

In today's digital world, grammar is essential regardless of what you do.

Well, as they say, your mileage may vary. Of course technical writers are not hired just to fix bad grammar, but it is a small part of what they do. Plenty of engineers can spell, but others can't, and whether it matters or not depends on what they were hired to do. Actually, lots of people can't spell or have poor grammar skills in all walks of life - it's why Ph.D's and CEOs and a whole host of others use editors and tech writers as back-ups. I've also taught presentation skills to engineers in local tech companies - they found it more cost effective to pay for training for these engineers versus firing them and hiring someone new that they have to bring up to speed.

Anyway, a guy making six figures for a company in Hawai'i is most likely doing something right according to lots of what I've read here on this forum. It didn't seem like he was in danger of being fired, just that he thought he maybe could do better on the mainland. Also, I'm not willing to judge someone's language skills based on a post to an online forum. He may communicate just fine at/for work.

[ruprick]

Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf

Do you honestly believe that the way you present yourself and write doesn't matter when it comes to promotions?

Another strawman argument. The poster we are discussing did not complain about promotions or working his way up the food chain, instead he was bemoaning his standard of living while earning a six-figure income. Also, I try to give internet banter the benefit of the doubt. Some are posting from phones and are not putting a large amount of thought into their grammar. They are not writing up a TPS report for work or a thesis for their graduate work--they may communicate just fine in the real world.

Originally Posted by mdand3boys

It doesn't matter how much the person is making; they complained about it not being enough.

see above

Originally Posted by ChezAloha

Well, as they say, your mileage may vary. Of course technical writers are not hired just to fix bad grammar, but it is a small part of what they do. Plenty of engineers can spell, but others can't, and whether it matters or not depends on what they were hired to do. Actually, lots of people can't spell or have poor grammar skills in all walks of life - it's why Ph.D's and CEOs and a whole host of others use editors and tech writers as back-ups. I've also taught presentation skills to engineers in local tech companies - they found it more cost effective to pay for training for these engineers versus firing them and hiring someone new that they have to bring up to speed.

Anyway, a guy making six figures for a company in Hawai'i is most likely doing something right according to lots of what I've read here on this forum. It didn't seem like he was in danger of being fired, just that he thought he maybe could do better on the mainland. Also, I'm not willing to judge someone's language skills based on a post to an online forum. He may communicate just fine at/for work.

My thoughts exactly.

[hotzcatz]

I've worked with a LOT of engineers as well as architects. Generally speaking, they mostly have fine written English skills but are usually lacking in social skills. But, that's just generally speaking. There are also all levels of engineers, too. I've worked with a few engineers imported from other countries and they had an entirely different level of spoken/written communication.

On the which high school you graduated from topic, they don't ask "which high school you grad?" they just ask "where you grad?" since college doesn't matter.

I'd rank HPA before Iolani, too. Punahou, HPA, Iolani for the top three. HPA is a boarding school for most of the students and they have equitation among their classes. Maybe even HPA first, I've not looked at the stats, though, and I dunno if they have a stat for prestige. I suppose you could check their alumni and see how many of them are CEO's of Hawaii firms. Probably easier to just take the top 100 Hawaii companies and see where their CEO's went to high school.

If I had a kid who was planning on staying in Hawaii as an adult, then I'd figure out a way to send them to HPA or Punahou for their last four years of high school. They'd also get a lot of at home schooling even if they went to a general public school during the day. If the kid didn't want to stay in Hawaii as an adult, it might be worthwhile to ship them off to a mainland relative to go to school on the mainland or do a lot of remedial study after school here. I doubt I'd pay the private school rates if the kid wasn't going to stay in Hawaii afterwards.

We were just over on Oahu last weekend and it's getting significantly more crowded and stressed just lately. There are more and more fingers and less and less pie, I'm not sure how those poor folks manage over there. Traffic never stopped, no matter what time of day, there was traffic to deal with. Oahu has lost it's laid back attitude.

Honolulu is becoming sort of a rats nest of things, everything is scrunched together and packed in. No matter where you go, you have to try to get there before the other guy and find a space for yourself. Things seemed more shabby, too, like paint is more expensive or something.

As house prices rise, that puts a pinch on everyone, even renters. Postage rates just went up significantly, so that's gonna raise prices on stuff, too. Folks that are already pinched and hanging by a thread are gonna be dropping off now and it's gonna be harder for folks to move over here.

[Jonny08]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

On the which high school you graduated from topic, they don't ask "which high school you grad?" they just ask "where you grad?" since college doesn't matter.

College definitely can matter. Most people wouldn't look at someone who graduated from USC or Stanford the same as someone who only went to KCC or didn't go to college. Maybe for some entry-level or manual labor job, they wouldn't ask about college. But for a professional position that requires or prefers a college degree, of course Stanford is considered better than a community college.

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

I'd rank HPA before Iolani, too. Punahou, HPA, Iolani for the top three. HPA is a boarding school for most of the students and they have equitation among their classes. Maybe even HPA first, I've not looked at the stats, though, and I dunno if they have a stat for prestige. I suppose you could check their alumni and see how many of them are CEO's of Hawaii firms. Probably easier to just take the top 100 Hawaii companies and see where their CEO's went to high school.

If I had a kid who was planning on staying in Hawaii as an adult, then I'd figure out a way to send them to HPA or Punahou for their last four years of high school. They'd also get a lot of at home schooling even if they went to a general public school during the day. If the kid didn't want to stay in Hawaii as an adult, it might be worthwhile to ship them off to a mainland relative to go to school on the mainland or do a lot of remedial study after school here. I doubt I'd pay the private school rates if the kid wasn't going to stay in Hawaii afterwards.

I guess you don't think high test scores mean anything if you think that highly of HPA.

Originally Posted by Jonny08

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I think HPA is the best on the Big Island, but compared to Oahu private schools, it belongs more in the second tier with schools like Kamehameha and Mid-Pac. If you look at a list of well-known alumni, Punahou and Iolani are by far better and also have much larger alumni networks due to HPA having much fewer graduates every year.

Also, keep in mind schools like Punahou and Iolani have very competitive admission policies. There are lots of students who apply but don't get accepted and have to go to a less prestigious private school or a public school. Yet, many parents are willing to pay the $20,000 tuition to send their kids to Punahou, Iolani, HPA, and Mid-Pac or the $10,000+ tuition at most other private schools, which shows how bad Hawaii public schools' reputation is.

[Fredesch]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Having a technical writer fix bad grammar for engineers is not a common luxury. And since I've terminated engineers for bad grammar and an inability to put together a presentation, it happens. I'd never hire a technical writer just to fix bad grammar. That isn't what most technical writers are hired to do. Plenty of engineers can spell.

In today's digital world, grammar is essential regardless of what you do.

Tech writers do many things, but the ones that write patentese drive me nuts. How can anyone make sense of stuff when every third line has "includes, but is not limited to" in it.

[hotzcatz]

Try reading the International Building Code book and writing specs for bids. That's not English either! The IBC is famous for sending you off to other sections to reference something. Sometimes the section you get sent to reference sends you off somewhere else, too. Oh well, if it was easy, they'd not need a lot of us folks who have to wade through it to find the specific references which matter for the job at hand. Which reminds me, I'm supposed to be wading at the moment.