CDF Hawaii Poll

[McFrostyJ]

Originally Posted by sbartist

We purchased a fee simple condo, but will not own it outright until the mortgage is paid off.

There are other units in our building for sale, but most are leasehold.

How can one building have both fee simple and leasehold units? I'm not saying yours doesn't, I am just wondering how that works. For example, when the lease on the land runs out, how could the owner of the land do anything different with it since there are also fee simple units in the building?

[WaikikiBoy]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

How can one building have both fee simple and leasehold units? I'm not saying yours doesn't, I am just wondering how that works. For example, when the lease on the land runs out, how could the owner of the land do anything different with it since there are also fee simple units in the building?

When a building has both Fee Simple Units and Leasehold Units, the leaseholder wouldn't be able to tear down and re-purpose the building when the lease expires. But they could take possesion of the unit and then re-sell it to someone else with a new lease term. Or they could simply renegotiate the lease with a new term and new monthly lease fee. But if some units are leashold and some fee-simple, the leaseholder could not tear down the building when the lease is up.

Often you can find lease-hold units where you can buy the Unit for a certain price, and then also buy the "fee" for a separate price. When you buy the "fee" you're basically buying out the lease-holder and moving the unit from a lease-hold property to a fee simple property.

In the past, there have been lease-holders who offer all their leases for sale to move out of the lease-hold position. As people buy-out the leases and move the units to fee simple, you get mixed property types in the same building.

[WaikikiBoy]

Here is an example of a current listing. http://www.OahuRE.com/s?201417824CND This building has both Fee Simple Units and Leashold Units. And, this specific unit is a Lease hold unit that you can buy for $218,000 as leashold and pay the monthly lease fee on top of the HOA until the lease Expires. Or, you can pay the $218,000 to buy the unit, PLUS $88,500 to Buy Out the Lease and convert it to a fee-simple property.

total cost is $218,000 as a Lease-hold .... or $306,500 as Fee-Simple with the lease bought out.

[McFrostyJ]

Very interesting! Thanks WaikikiBoy. Wish it would let me give you another rep point!

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi

What I also find increasingly problematic to categorize is what 'home ownership' actually means. When one hasn't paid the mortgage off, the title is still held with the bank which had given the loan. True home ownership IMHO is owning it outright with no mortgage or lien on the property. And all property taxes paid as well.

A mortgage does not define home ownership - it is security for a debt.

Anyway -

Specific to Hawaii. while easy to say Hawaii housing prices are expensive, the home ownership rate in the state steadily increases every decade.

For Hawaii, in 1950, only 33% owned homes. 41% in 1960, 47% in 1970, 52% in 1980, 54% in 1990, 56.5% in 2000, and 58.2% in the period 2008-2012.

So, for those that long for the good old days and say housing was so cheap in Hawaii - well, it didn't exactly encourage home ownership back then.

[hawaiian by heart]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

A mortgage does not define home ownership - it is security for a debt.

Anyway -

Specific to Hawaii. while easy to say Hawaii housing prices are expensive, the home ownership rate in the state steadily increases every decade.

For Hawaii, in 1950, only 33% owned homes. 41% in 1960, 47% in 1970, 52% in 1980, 54% in 1990, 56.5% in 2000, and 58.2% in the period 2008-2012.

So, for those that long for the good old days and say housing was so cheap in Hawaii - well, it didn't exactly encourage home ownership back then.

And what does that tell you viper? The population was about half it is today. Hmmmm could it be that people back then in Hawaii had different values and ideals about life in paradise? Maybe everything wasn't about money and luxury life but more of a relaxed, simpler life? Can we honestly say that we have the same today? Further as Gentrification continues you will see more middle class and rich moving to hawaii and the poor moving.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart

And what does that tell you viper?

It tells me the home ownership rate in Hawaii has steadily increased each decade since 1950.

It tells me home ownership is more affordable for a larger segment of the population in 2014 than years prior as Hawaii evolved from a plantation style economy to one focused on tourism/military.

[hawaiian by heart]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

It tells me the home ownership rate in Hawaii has steadily increased each decade since 1950.

It tells me home ownership is more affordable for a larger segment of the population in 2014 than years prior as Hawaii evolved from a plantation style economy to one focused on tourism/military.

buzzzzzzz sorry. I bet you that today you have a far higher population of people from outside of Hawaii living on the islands then people born & raised or multigenerational from Hawaii? Esp Oahu.

Thats the difference.

[hawaiian by heart]

Ok i think it has been long enough, i was kinda surprised but not entirely shocked at the results and it kinda confermed what i suspected all along. Heres some numbers.

In Hawaii / On CDF Hawaii
1) Home Ownership: 56.7% / 73.91% and +
2) Renters: 43.3% / 17. 39%
3) Multi generational: 11.1% / 8.70%


For Hawaii, in 1950, only 33% owned homes. 41% in 1960, 47% in 1970, 52% in 1980, 54% in 1990, 56.5% in 2000, and 58.2% in the period 2008-2012.

But the average sales price for homes in Hawaii was

1985 $205,400
1995 $429,613
2005 $744,174
2013 $804,933

Population: 1970 768,561
1980 964,691
1990 1,108,229
2000 1,211,537
today 1,360,301

Are we keeping it real? I will let you decide. Peoples perceptions of reality of life is based on experience.

Poll results from 10/28/2014