Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
“Herd immunity” is a very popular theme. It may - or may not - be possible ... even in conjunction with a vaccine. Herd immunity doesn’t develop for all viruses. The ‘common cold’ being a common example.
The difference between you and I on this issue is: you are arguing a theory - I am pointing out that theories are not proofs.
I haven’t argued that shut downs / SIP are best solutions. Obviously, as you say, diseases can’t be ever eradicated entirely and perpetually. And obviously, the best solution, if possible, lies in healthy, responsive immune systems.
The problem is: what to do right now, immediately, as we find ourselves short of the knowledge (attainable through research and data analysis) required to knowas opposed tobelieve.
The only thing we know for sure at this time is: where there is no contact there can be no disease. Thus, the dominant advice from the greatest body of expertise is: SIP / social distance, while we learn more.
It’s a very costly experimental approach. And dropping that approach before superior knowledge is attained is a gamble. Some folks, like yourself, think either it is not a gamble - and I don’t agree and don’t know where that belief is founded other than ideologically based desire - or that the gamble is worth taking.
Overnight an additional eight sailors, previously ill with and recovered from CV19, on the USS Roosevelt have fallen ill a second time after returning to duty aboard. So 13 re-infections in one petri-dish-like paradigm. While we don’t know the dynamics of their ordeal yet, this is NOT a good sign ... and does not lend confidence to your immunity development gamble strategy.
Then what’s the point of a vaccine let’s say if you can’t build an immunity to the virus? If you can continue to get C19, then there are only two choices. We hide and only leave our homes when necessary wearing masks or we go about our daily lives and enjoy what is left of it. I would rather enjoy my life, catch C19 and die than to live in fear spraying everything that we can possibly touch with disinfectant.
Then we can agree it’s a gamble on either end of the spectrum. Personally, I would gamble on live your life and what happens happens rather than continue being on house arrest in isolation.
It is also an ideological based desire to keep the economy shut down. It reminds me of what Bill Maher stated. There are people who want to see this economy crash for political reasons. Can’t deny that.
If vaccines are not effective, and herd immunity doesn’t apply - the “conundrum” becomes learning the best treatments. Treatments to ameliorate symptoms are an historically near certainty. Science is working on that as well as vaccines. We’ll see
Fortunately the recovery rate is very high, especially for younger people.
Then what’s the point of a vaccine let’s say if you can’t build an immunity to the virus? If you can continue to get C19, then there are only two choices. We hide and only leave our homes when necessary wearing masks or we go about our daily lives and enjoy what is left of it. I would rather enjoy my life, catch C19 and die than to live in fear spraying everything that we can possibly touch with disinfectant.
Then we can agree it’s a gamble on either end of the spectrum. Personally, I would gamble on live your life and what happens happens rather than continue being on house arrest in isolation.
It is also an ideological based desire to keep the economy shut down. It reminds me of what Bill Maher stated. There are people who want to see this economy crash for political reasons. Can’t deny that.
I didn’t say: “you can’t build an immunity” through vaccine or herd function. I said, repeatedly: it is not yet known.
Your desire to gamble does not trump others’ desire to maintain safety protocols until more knowledge illuminates a better path. Man is a social animal. An individual's desires do not rise above the best interests of the social troop. Anthropology is a guiding science.
You are presenting the conundrum as an either / or binary. It’s not. We are in a temporary suspension, not on a precipice being chased by beasts.
And sure, there are stupid people who want the economy to crash for ideological reasons. Doesn’t change a thing about the issues I have addressed. It’s no smarter to open for ideological reasons - than to crash for ideological reasons. Ideologies are bad excuses for lazy intellects. Don’t be lazy.
If vaccines are not effective, and herd immunity doesn’t apply - the “conundrum” becomes learning the best treatments. Treatments to ameliorate symptoms are an historically near certainty. Science is working on that as well as vaccines. We’ll see
I am certainly looking a knowledge of the virus's effects and improved treatments. While I hope for a vaccine and will get it, I don't think this virus is going away, anywhere. Just too contagious. You cannot wall off an area or island with community spread established, although it appears that Hawaii is trying. I am watching Italy to see how they proceed, after ordering everyone home and inside (and few people living alone, etc.) and see how their opening, slow or less slow, goes.
I also wanted to point out in the USA article you posted in regards to the fear of hospitals being overwhelmed. That never happened with this virus. In fact, in the epicenter NYC, hospitals were empty including the Javits Center and USNS Comfort.
We were also told by experts like Dr Fauci states that open up too prematurely will overcrowd hospitals and cases will increase. That never happened. Where are these experts now? They have all gone dormant. Georgia has been opened up for three weeks now. People are hanging out in bars in Florida without masks on.
I also wanted to point out in the USA article you posted in regards to the fear of hospitals being overwhelmed. That never happened with this virus. In fact, in the epicenter NYC, hospitals were empty including the Javits Center and USNS Comfort.
We were also told by experts like Dr Fauci states that open up too prematurely will overcrowd hospitals and cases will increase. That never happened. Where are these experts now? They have all gone dormant. Georgia has been opened up for three weeks now. People are hanging out in bars in Florida without masks on.
The reason hospitals were never overwhelmed is because of actions taken to prevent that from happening.
Where are the experts now? Roflmfao ... sorry, but ask your favorite fearless draft-dodger. Trump has total control over their appearances. He’s shut them down just like he’s been dumping IG’s all over the government.
And again, what’s happening in Florida and Georgia doesn’t prove a thing - yet. Hang on to your shorts officer. We’re getting there
The reason hospitals were never overwhelmed is because of actions taken to prevent that from happening.
Where are the experts now? Roflmfao ... sorry, but ask your favorite fearless draft-dodger. Trump has total control over their appearances. He’s shut them down just like he’s been dumping IG’s all over the government.
And again, what’s happening in Florida and Georgia doesn’t prove a thing - yet. Hang on to your shorts officer. We’re getting there
The epicenter of the virus was in NYC and hospitals were not overwhelmed. In fact they were empty. I been a cop there for for 20 years and at no time in my career were hospitals ever empty. It’s a madhouse with a full ER waiting room. I don’t believe the house arrest had anything to do with empty hospitals. I say the evidence points to that this virus didn’t cause as many hospitalizations as predicted. Georgia and Florida are opened back up and they are a microcosm that this virus doesn’t cause as many hospitalizations as thought. Florida is what, the third most populated state with an extremely elderly population. Let’s not forget Cuomo put C19 infected people into nursing homes infecting and killing more people that would have.
Mod cut: leave politics out of this forum
Here is a good read.
Says a lot about our media today doesn’t it? Crisis and fear sells and screw integrity. As the saying goes, “if it bleeds, it leads.”
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
