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You want to back that up with some stats. From somewhere other than the White House.
It's a well known fact actually. And it's not even close to being the top killer in Hawaii or the US. Even other lesser thought about deaths, there's way more of. There's WAY more suicides in hawaii every year, like 10X the number of covid deaths. More homicides. WAY more drug ODs, etc. Oh I forgot you want a citation or two. Look below. "Cluster" of 4 suicides in one week on Kauai earlier this year.
I think hawaii's restrictive measures is keeping covid cases down helping to result in low deaths, there is no disputing that. But the question is when is it too much? We can reduce cases to zero by forcing everyone to stay in their own homes, etc until the end of the year. But what's that going to do to the residents? What's the point of saving everyone from catching a virus if the deathrate from other causes is much higher and if they can't afford to live? In June 40% of tenants were unable to pay rent in Hawaii, that's an insane number. What do you think July and August numbers look like? Better or worse?
Ige is basically a mental midget, and his inability to make logical, rational decisions is hurting the people of hawaii. The fact that his mother caught the virus made him very tentative when it comes to any related decisions. His wife is a school teacher, which is the reason why he's had these insane pushes to keep the schools open or to reopen in-class instruction ASAP. It's the reason why he pushed for taxpayer funded pre-school for all.
I am not sure which part of the assertion he was pushing back against, but there were clearly some demonstrably false statements in the post:
The flu STILL kills 25X more people in hawaii every year than has died with covid so far. Why no shutdowns relating to the flu? It's far more deadly. More people catch the flu, and more people die from it.
While it is true that more people have died in a typical year in Hawaii than have died from Covid, the rest of the assertions are simply not supported by the data.
In the US, an estimate 40-60k people die from the flu each year. We are 5 months into Covid and have over 150k deaths. Worldwide, the flu estimate is 250-300k deaths annually, Covid deaths in 6-7 months so far is around 700k.
That was AFTER the world shut down to various degrees. What do you suppose the death counts would be if no one had shut down?
Hawaii locked down quite aggressively relative to most other states, the death tolls in Hawaii are one of the lowest. I suppose that could just be a coincidence.
Overall in the US, and the World, people are dying in much greater numbers from Covid than from the Flu, and that is EVEN WITH THE LOCK DOWNS. Do you suppose that the people of Hawaii have some sort of special immunity, or do you think that some it might be due to the aggressive measures that were taken?
To claim that more people die from the flu than from Covid justified a request to provide some stats.
It causes more deaths, it's more deadly. Heart disease kills over 2500 people in hawaii every year. It woudl be more deadly than a disease that killed 1 person with a 100% death rate or a disease that killed 25 people with a 0.1% death rate. It depends on what your definition of deadly is. Deadly to the OVERALL population or deadly to an individual. Unless you think all those commercials are a lie that says "Heart disease (not covid) is the #1 killer in Hawaii"
There's diseases out there which are basically death sentences if you're unfortunate enough to have a genetic disposition and get it. Deadly to the individual, not deadly to everyone else. So yes, in hawaii, the seasonal flu and pneumonia are more deadly than covid.
I am not sure which part of the assertion he was pushing back against, but there were clearly some demonstrably false statements in the post:
The flu STILL kills 25X more people in hawaii every year than has died with covid so far. Why no shutdowns relating to the flu? It's far more deadly. More people catch the flu, and more people die from it.
While it is true that more people have died in a typical year in Hawaii than have died from Covid, the rest of the assertions are simply not supported by the data.
In the US, an estimate 40-60k people die from the flu each year. We are 5 months into Covid and have over 150k deaths. Worldwide, the flu estimate is 250-300k deaths annually, Covid deaths in 6-7 months so far is around 700k.
That was AFTER the world shut down to various degrees. What do you suppose the death counts would be if no one had shut down?
Hawaii locked down quite aggressively relative to most other states, the death tolls in Hawaii are one of the lowest. I suppose that could just be a coincidence.
Overall in the US, and the World, people are dying in much greater numbers from Covid than from the Flu, and that is EVEN WITH THE LOCK DOWNS. Do you suppose that the people of Hawaii have some sort of special immunity, or do you think that some it might be due to the aggressive measures that were taken?
To claim that more people die from the flu than from Covid justified a request to provide some stats.
I agree. I never understood why people would argue against conclusions made by the vast majority of scientists, researchers and doctors across the world. They make as if Hawaii is the only one implementing controls. Many cities in many countries are exercising far more stringent controls than us. Many many times greater. And in most cases, they have a lower case count than us even if our case count is much lower than those in the contiguous US.
This is truly a no-win situation. I see the merit in opening the economy but ultimately public perception will win IMO. And if Hawaii continues to maintain its reputation in having the nation's lowest case count and death count, we will recover much faster because of the global perception that we are statistically safer than any other US destination. If our cases build up quickly and start to overtake or even match the count in other states, I firmly believe this will dramatically impact our ability to recover downstream.
Many will disagree (surely many here on this forum) but I think it's critical that we maintain a much lower case count per capita than any other state simply because we depend so heavily on visitors to maintain our quality of life. If we aren't far separated from the pack, we will suffer even more than we are suffering now. Sadly some communities/cultures are indifferent to the virus. For example, it's been stated in the news multiple times that while Micronesians represent less than 4% of our population, they are accounting for 35% of the cases. No such case delta (or anywhere near that) between races exists anywhere in the world. Our government needs to get out there and educate these people on the importance of social distancing even within their households. Some will say it's a waste of time... perhaps it is. But when you have more than one third of all cases isolated to one group, that's going to require all hands on deck.
I still believe there will be more unemployment aid from the feds. This partisan bickering is par for the course... but more money is on the way to support the no-fault-of-their-own unemployed. And if we're going to have people laid off, it's best they are laid off when there is federal support. When the contiguous states begin to recover, those funds will disappear forever. And we better hope we are looking exceptionally attractive to potential travelers when that time comes.
It causes more deaths, it's more deadly. Heart disease kills over 2500 people in hawaii every year. It woudl be more deadly than a disease that killed 1 person with a 100% death rate or a disease that killed 25 people with a 0.1% death rate. It depends on what your definition of deadly is. Deadly to the OVERALL population or deadly to an individual. Unless you think all those commercials are a lie that says "Heart disease (not covid) is the #1 killer in Hawaii"
There's diseases out there which are basically death sentences if you're unfortunate enough to have a genetic disposition and get it. Deadly to the individual, not deadly to everyone else. So yes, in hawaii, the seasonal flu and pneumonia are more deadly than covid.
What does the heart disease death rate have to do with your assertion that the Flu kills more people than Covid? I did not see anyone claim Covid was the number #1 killer.
Covid has killed way more people than the flu and it has only been about 6 months, the number are still climbing. That is EVEN comparing Flu deaths under normal conditions to Covid deaths WITH all the precautions you are railing against. Do you not see the absurdity of making that comparison?
Your arguments about opening up the economy above are not unreasonable, it would be easier to have a rational discussion about the pros and cons of opening the economy if people did not cling to demonstrably false claims.
I am not sure which part of the assertion he was pushing back against, but there were clearly some demonstrably false statements in the post:
The flu STILL kills 25X more people in hawaii every year than has died with covid so far. Why no shutdowns relating to the flu? It's far more deadly. More people catch the flu, and more people die from it.
While it is true that more people have died in a typical year in Hawaii than have died from Covid, the rest of the assertions are simply not supported by the data.
In the US, an estimate 40-60k people die from the flu each year. We are 5 months into Covid and have over 150k deaths. Worldwide, the flu estimate is 250-300k deaths annually, Covid deaths in 6-7 months so far is around 700k.
That was AFTER the world shut down to various degrees. What do you suppose the death counts would be if no one had shut down?
Hawaii locked down quite aggressively relative to most other states, the death tolls in Hawaii are one of the lowest. I suppose that could just be a coincidence.
Overall in the US, and the World, people are dying in much greater numbers from Covid than from the Flu, and that is EVEN WITH THE LOCK DOWNS. Do you suppose that the people of Hawaii have some sort of special immunity, or do you think that some it might be due to the aggressive measures that were taken?
To claim that more people die from the flu than from Covid justified a request to provide some stats.
His post explicitly applied to Hawaii and efforts taken in Hawaii against covid vs other things. Not, say, covid and other things on a nationwide level.
..For example, it's been stated in the news multiple times that while Micronesians represent less than 4% of our population, they are accounting for 35% of the cases. No such case delta (or anywhere near that) between races exists anywhere in the world. ..
In Sweden, late spring tallies showed Somalis comprising 5% of virus cases with 1% of population. Dramatic difference but not nearly so large as the one you've noted.
Most likely a similarity is that these immigrant populations tend to live in crowded home conditions and are exposed to a lot of people outside the home too.
Are the Micronesians being asked to get tested, or requesting them because they have symptoms? If it's the latter you'd think the concerns about this virus would be on their radar and shared among the community.
Aren't many of them Mormons? They tend to look out for one another.
What does the heart disease death rate have to do with your assertion that the Flu kills more people than Covid? I did not see anyone claim Covid was the number #1 killer.
Covid has killed way more people than the flu and it has only been about 6 months, the number are still climbing. That is EVEN comparing Flu deaths under normal conditions to Covid deaths WITH all the precautions you are railing against. Do you not see the absurdity of making that comparison?
Your arguments about opening up the economy above are not unreasonable, it would be easier to have a rational discussion about the pros and cons of opening the economy if people did not cling to demonstrably false claims.
Heart disease is not communicable!
IFR of Covid19 is approximately .3, according to this man (a lot of interesting research and projections to be found at his sites, btw).: https://twitter.com/youyanggu
IFR of flu considered to be around .1 or less I believe.
I don't know, it's certainly a tough call. Ultimately Hawaii must have a plan to allow a return to tourism.
Interesting that Sweden and Japan, two somewhat outlier countries that never had complete lockdowns, are only now starting to open back for tourism. USA is not on their lists of countries that will be allowed.
Indeed, and the general message for limiting death associated with heart disease also applies to Covid, as no one seems to be mentioning except Bill Maher.
His post explicitly applied to Hawaii and efforts taken in Hawaii against covid vs other things. Not, say, covid and other things on a nationwide level.
Yep, not sure why people keep trying to drag national stuff into it since hawaii is obviously different situation than the lower 48. They're probably just trying to drag national politics into it. Alaska is probably the closest comparison to Hawaii.
Quote:
But it is preventable!
Which is where the irony is. People are flipping out over this thing and demanding more and more stricter lockdowns when they barely bat an eye at other things that kill way more people. Where's the outcry?
Hell, in 2019 the Hawaii Department of Transportation has counted 44 fatalities involving motor vehicle occupants, 36 pedestrians, 20 motorcycles and mopeds, and three bicyclists, bringing the total to 103. DANGEROUS! Wheres the outcry to shut down all roadways?
Ige booted thousands of micronesians off Quest, resulting in almost 100 additional deaths over a couple years. Totally preventable. Where's the outcry?
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