HAWAII - NEED HONEST ADVICE, please HELP ! (Hilo: fit in, home owners insurance)

[Calico Salsa]

Thank you Think! Your are kind and thoughtful and I appreciate your encouragement. I hope I was more clear to keikekai in my second post.

[MadRussian]

Come on guys! OP said she is on budget, but she didn't say what is her budget! If her budget is around $5K a month she may survive.

[keikekai]

First to CalicoSalsa, you said, No need to yell with all caps' I wasn't trying to yell with caps - but I was trying to respond to your replies, and the only way I could figure out to distinguish your writing with myn so it wouldn't all blend togeher, was to do the caps (if you know of another way to do that let me know)....was not trying to yell !

Anyways, I do APPRECIATE all of your responses - but feel some of you are 'off' and not on the same page as I am. I don't appreciate 'welder' and his insults, why is it that people on these boards can just hurl insults so easily (is that something you would do if I was standing in your face ? Didn't think so).

So according to what you are saying - unless your a millionaire (or close to it) forget about hawaii. So NO ONE on a budget lives there.....Right. I am sure many people live on a budget. Why is someone not offering REAL advice if you think $$ is the main issue here. How much $ would one need monthly to live there without struggling ? Maybe that should be the question - instead of "if you got to ask "How much"?, chances are you can't afford it." You assumption is that everyone in Hawaii is filthy rich - I know you are wrong here. Of course there are tons of people loaded with cash, but I know there are many who also are struggling to the point of having to move off the island - and everything in between.

[Jungjohann]

I've lived here for a few years, and personally find it rather insulting that someone who knows absolutely nothing about Hawaii, would have the audacity to state that 30% of the population here is "hooked" on meth. That is a total misrepresentation of what Hawaii is all about. Where you ever came up with that nonsense is beyond me. And, oh yea, been here since 1975, kind of know what I'm talking about.

Aole aloha

[whynot?]

Originally Posted by keikekai

First to CalicoSalsa, you said, No need to yell with all caps' I wasn't trying to yell with caps - but I was trying to respond to your replies, and the only way I could figure out to distinguish your writing with myn so it wouldn't all blend togeher, was to do the caps (if you know of another way to do that let me know)....was not trying to yell !

There is a fair-sized "quote" button in the lower left of the posting window, and a smaller one just to the right of it with quotation marks and a plus sign for "multi-quoting," which allows breaking a post into multiple parts and responding to each. You were multi-quoting in ALL CAPS, in effect. Try the button.

So according to what you are saying - unless your a millionaire (or close to it) forget about hawaii. So NO ONE on a budget lives there.....Right. I am sure many people live on a budget. Why is someone not offering REAL advice if you think $$ is the main issue here. How much $ would one need monthly to live there without struggling ? Maybe that should be the question - instead of "if you got to ask "How much"?, chances are you can't afford it." You assumption is that everyone in Hawaii is filthy rich - I know you are wrong here. Of course there are tons of people loaded with cash, but I know there are many who also are struggling to the point of having to move off the island - and everything in between.

Having lived here for several years (mostly retired) paying close attention to the ways that people live, you are both right. There are certainly people here on budgets. In fact, almost everybody is on some kind of budget. I think CalicoSalsa's informed point, however, is that despite the idea of paradise, the rat race here is at least as bad as the rat race on the mainland. Worse, in fact, because jobs pay less and everything is more expensive, so you work longer hours or more jobs to buy less. Consequently, you have less time for your family and there are more -- and sometimes negative -- distractions for your children while they're not under your direct supervision. So people move all the way over here to enjoy the tropics and they end up working all the time and seeing their family less. And there's often more stress and less cohesion than there was where they started out. Obviously that's not the case for everyone, but it is very common -- and more likely than most who want to move here believe.

Good luck as you consider your options.

[Calico Salsa]

keikekai - Thank you for clarifying the use of CAPS.

I wonder if your own language may have helped spark some of the tone you have received as replies. Below are a few examples of what some might consider pretty strong language, and this doesn't include some that was editted out by the moderator already. To your point, I hope that no one would speak this way in person to someone, especially those who are being asked to do a favor by helping you.

Originally Posted by keikekai

WHY DO YOU MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS ? YOU DO NOT KNOW ME, I AM MAKING INQUIRIES ABOUT THINGS I HAVE READ THAT ARE OF CONCERN - AND ANYONE WITH 1/2 A BRAIN WOULD REALIZE THAT, YES ITS THE SMART THING TO DO, ...

... I SAW THE NATURAL BEAUTY, ETC. SO NOW I CANNOT WEAR BLINDERS (LIKE YOU MIGHT) TO THE FACT THAT ...


HERE YOU ARE BEING RIDICULOUS AGAIN - OF COURSE I KNOW OF HAWAII'S POSITIVE POINTS -

I don't think anyone here has said that everyone who lives in Hawaii must be very rich. In my post I meant to illustrate that get your ideal - what you described as your dream of living here - would in fact take a lot of money. The cost of buying a house if pretty high here, especially one anywhere on a white sandy beach. You have said that you have looked at some properties online already, and noted that they have a lot of lava. Not all properties have lava either. But that kind of indicates to me that you are looking in a certain price range, and maybe the only ones in your price range are those that are in the lava path. My home is in a quiet residential neighborhood on Maui. I can't see the ocean at all, but I'm only 3 blocks away from water... about a half mile away from a nice beach, the beaches closer are rocky and too close to the houses to be ones to frequent. It was in terrible shape when we bought it, and it took a legal battle to get the deal and the former owners out. We paid around $500k 4 years ago, and have put another $170k into it. It's now worth probably $800k.

Originally Posted by keikekai

Why is someone not offering REAL advice if you think $$ is the main issue here. How much $ would one need monthly to live there without struggling ?

Hey, to be fair, before you were asking for broad advice. Now that you've asked a very specific question - sorry, it still depends. It depends on how you intend to live. Maybe you can give us a little more information with which to make that kind of calculation.

Buying a house for a family of 4 will cost you at least $500k, for a very modest, older home in a non-beach area. There are some for less, and a lot for more. It depends on what kind of neighborhood you are comfortable with. Are you OK with living away from the beach, and can you describe what is acceptable in neighborhoods?

Gasoline is pretty high here, so your cost of living will also depend on how close you live to where you will work. We don't know what you do for a living, so we can't predict where you might be able to find work, and how far that would likely be from where you can live. What do you do for a living - what kind of work would you be doing on Hawaii?

Food is also more expensive. Living near some place that has the larger stores often helps, or if you are a food gardener that can help too. If you tell us how much you spend on food now, per month, we can translate that to Hawaii costs. Are you willing to grow some of your own food?

3 Kids - some families here don't spend much on their children, who have to be content with wearing hand me downs and older and/or used clothing from the thrift store, and no Wii or Nintendo or computers. At the other end of the spectrum are those who spend a lot on their kids, who need new clothing and lots of new toys, computers, cars. Can you give us an idea of what you spend now on your kids? Are any of them driving age? Do they have any hobbies that might be expensive? For example, a friend of mine has kids who take part in lots of sports. He drives them around every weekend and to practice during the week. That means more in gas, uniforms, snacks, etc.

keikekai, tell us more about yourself and your style of living so we can make some kind of comparison.

[keikekai]

TO JUNGJOHANN: I wanted to inform you, it was NOT me who came up with those meth figures - it was Alohagirl99 (in the Hawaii form, go see 'moving to hawaii with 2 teenagers' - its several posts below myn) Please READ IT !!! I was just as shocked as you I am sure to have read that. I gathered all the facts from THIS MESSAGE BOARD ON HAWAII !!! I DID NOT pull them out of thin air ! I have nothing personally against Hawaii, I LOVE HAWAII and wanted to gather information - and on realty websites you only see homes and positive aspects - that's why I turned here - so I could learn the pros/cons of the place from people who LIVE there !!. You should NOT take offense to my questions - they were things I gathered from other people's posts in this Hawaii forum.

To WHYNOT ? -- thank you for your great post. Thank you CalicoSalsa as well for your explanations, I appreciate your time and input. Mahalo.

[Sandpointian]

Pardon the intrusion, but I am a big time "Hawaiiphile" and try to keep up-to-date on the motivations of others to move there.

I would have to say that Calico Salsa's post, the one one that was not terribly well received by keikekai, was excellent and worth re-reading over and over. My guess is that it was not meant to be taken personally, but to be read as if it were in a book of advice, i.e. meant to be read by many.

Having lived in six different countries and about 20-30 cities/towns in my life, I have had to live a life of perpetual adjustment. We also live in a small town in Northern Idaho, whose charms attract the very same class of people that Hawaii attracts: folks looking for a chance to slow down, achieve a more harmonious life, and establish more intimacy with friends and Nature. Whatever comments I add to this discussion are made from that perspective.

Only a couple of points. One is that the lens through which we view Hawaii is very, very different as a result of being tourists...certainly versus living full-time. As a tourist, the goal of your stay is 100% to relax, enjoy and indulge. As a resident parent, your goal is to earn, to build, to plan, and to provide. The challenge then is trying to achieve the former while handling the realities of the latter. This is not easy, since the entire motivation of being in Hawaii is to relax. It is not as if people move to Hawaii for the work (although a few do).

Two is the economic realities of living in a tourist economy have to be confronted dead on. Ours in Northern Idaho has distinct seasonality. This is less so in Hawaii, but more than one might think. Tourists that head to Hawaii follow their own seasonal patterns. Maintaining the family economy will not be easy. unless one of three things: you bring your job with you; you move online; or you are independently wealthy. And the latter depends on what kind of lifestyle you wish to maintain.

Were we to attempt a move to Hawaii, we would not do so until we have mastered the two points above. Bringing a successful online business to Hawaii would deal with second point. Making sure it is sufficiently automated so that you can enjoy Hawaii would address #1. You would have to find your own way. A great test would be to seek the opinion of a third party on the economics of your family plan. If the unbiased opinion determines your plan is closer to "wishful thinking" rather than a sensible plan for a family, then you would wise to heed any advice forthcoming.

From a personal standpoint, since we love Sandpoint and the community it represents, we no longer think of the escape that moving to Hawaii once represented to us. However, the idea of moving there for a year, while the kids are young, remains intriguing...provided these two points above are taken care of. Anything beyond a year would be "organic." But from where we sit right now, the move would be taken when we feel the financial cushion is wide enough to allow us to fully enjoy the place. And that is only for thinking about a year move. Moving for good requires a whole other level of introspection, planning and reality checks.

The bottom line is that with kids, one has to be biased toward being risk-averse and having more better thought-out plans and contingencies. If so, you can have a reasonable shot at having a wonderful time. If not, then the Hawaiian "experience" will sour quickly, as it has for countless others on this message board.

Good luck!
S

[chbunn]

I agree that Calico Salsa's post was very very excellent, down to earth, and has benefited, at the least, my own person.
A lot of people seem to be wanting to move away from where they are. Well, that's kind of sad and unfortunate. Paradise on earth is not possible, but you reap what you sow. Hawaii or not, try to live in acceptance mode instead of flee mode. It's not easy, and you always long and want something better than this, but that's just the way life is for most people. Sad and unfortunate, but as John Milton said during Middle Ages in England, we are in "Paradise Lost". I hope we can hope for "Paradise Regained" through God.

[lost_traveler1]

Aloha keikekai,
I agree with you that many posts are not on the same page as you are.
Typical of those who want to give you their 2 cents on everything, heh some even sound condescending.

Maybe I can offer some "objective" observations that may actually help you, instead of judging and telling you how you should live your life.

In response to your initial questions/comments:
Yes, Hawaii has a slow and laid back pace and there are no extreme seasonal changes in the weather. You can expect one of the following, or a combination of, sunny/overcast/rainy/cool/humid days throughout the year.

Most people live on Oahu due to it being the city-center of the entire state. Oahu is similar to other states in which we have all community types - rural/suburb/urban/farm, but on a smaller scale. The city has one of the highest consumer rates only behind the top US cities like SF., L.A., and NYC so its pretty easy to get access to stuff. Oahu has all the social scars and issues that all states have like crime, drugs, and traffic, luckily we are nowhere near the top in these categories like other city/states in the mainland.

As for all the crap you read, (and seemingly overly concerned over) most of the stuff people post are simply rants and pet peeves they deal with everyday. The funniest that you mentioned was about the coqui frogs, hahahah. Yes those frogs I'm told, are crazy loud, but its like in a couple neighborhoods, it would be simply dumb luck if you end up living in that neighborhood, these things are the least of your concerns. Simply, you can find those same types of comments on all the other states in the forum (as well as in the rants and rave sections on craigslist). Nowhere is gonna ever be perfect, except, I am told, in Heaven. Hehaahahaeeha.

Maui is next highest in terms of urban/modernized then followed by either Kauai or the Big Island. Basic generalized rule of thumb is the less dense and urban island and town you go to, the more "green" and "tropical" it gets and the land/housing gets cheaper. But the jobs are more scarce, salaries are much lower, and the cost of living goes up due to low volume in sales and added costs to ship things to rural areas. The people may also be less educated and opened minded in the rural areas.

That is the balance you would have to solve. We all here in Hawaii would like to have a big house on a large parcel surrounded by a forest of guava and mango trees but we all have to adjust and compromise the cost of living to quality of life.

As for being cast as a mainlander, to be directly blunt, the truth is Hawaii CULTURE is based and influenced FROM Polynesian and Asian culture of being humble and nonconfrontational, which is the total opposite of how many mainlanders present themselves (think the term ugly American) when they come here. NOT ALL, but the bad ones usually stick out and ruin it for the other mainland transplants who are simply just good people. The problem is that they refuse to adjust to be open to the culture no matter how irrational or foreign it may seem to them compared to their experience living somewhere else.

If you truly have an open perspective and want to experience a new culture and environment, you will adapt quickly and make friends and at the same time, enjoy a new experience. Everything is TOTALLY based on attitude.

There are alot of Asians here (myself included) about 50%. You and your kids will not be a majority, in terms of what you may be used to, and there are much stereotypical perceptions but people usually end up taking you for what you are based on how you carry yourself. If you are wiling to absorb into the culture, dress local, wear slippas, eat local food (learning a few pidgen words wouldn't hurt) you and your family would have an easier transition compared to the many recent mainland transplant that moved into my neighborhood (I luckily live within the more prominent neighborhood Hawaii Kai) and look at me like they never saw so much Asians, eating such weird food, hahahaha.

Depending on your profession and finances, I'd suggest securing a job and a rental apartment/house first then make your move. The economy is so-so right now especially those related to the Tourist industry. Try it out and see, if it fits you and your family then you can adjust accordingly and more specifically to your needs/wants, vs. coming out semi-blind due to the large cost just to relocate 4 people. It is a great environment to raise a family in, in terms of weather, beaches, general friendliness of people, just different and unique compared to the mainland.

And for other posters who may react to my words, this is a generalized objective observation and doesn't nessessarily reflect you, so there is no need to waste time to attack and justify yourself and tell my you're not like that..........If you take all the specifics away, its the same if you went to a small town in the mainland, its all relevant.

Hope this helps, and like everything, take what people say, including me, with a grain of salt.

Good luck!