Good Site Regarding Energy Costs (for sale, renting, appliances)

[dad2764]

I found the following Website that gives a good idea of energy costs for various items. It is a bit old, so I double everything for Hawaii.

How much electricity does my stuff use?

It can give you a good idea of what appliances and other things cost, and where you can save money. I think Sweetbeet said that on Kauai electricity runs around $0.45 per kWh , so saving money there is a big deal.

[GregW]

Given the trade winds a small household size wind turbine should be considered.

[hotzcatz]

The wind doesn't blow consistently nor at all locations so they aren't all that good for the total power answer however wind turbines are a good addition to an off grid system. Photovoltaic systems work well in some areas. There are a very few hydroelectric generators but finding a year-round stream is difficult. Depending on your location some ways of making power will be a better choice than others. However, to go off the grid you have to cut your electric habit way back or you won't be able to afford the system.

Many folks are not able to live off the grid for a variety of reasons such as inability to come up with the initial equipment cost, renting instead of owning, lack of faith in their ability to do it, etc. However, the website mentioned above does have a lot of ways they can save on electricity even if they are still attached to the grid. And once you've become used to living with less electricity then switching to an off-the-grid lifestyle will be easy.

Switching to curly bulbs does wonders. If there is anything that makes heat with electricity it will use a lot of power and incandescent light bulbs waste a lot of energy in making heat instead of light. Washing clothes in cold water and hanging them on a line to dry will save a lot of electricity if you are using an electric water heater and electric dryer. Using a stove top (if you have a gas stove) coffee percolator instead of an electric drip coffee maker will save electric costs although that switches the energy use to propane instead of electric. No LP gas in Hawaii so all household gas is propane.

Put all those black cube battery/cellphone/printer chargers on a power strip so they can all be turned off. They use power just sitting there even if they aren't turned on. Put all electronics such as computers, printers, TVs on a power strip which can all be turned off when not in use. They have ghost loads which are sucking up small bits of power all the time.

Basically, just be aware every time you plug something into the wall. Consider them little electric vampires sucking away the electric blood of your house and getting their little fangs into your pocketbook. Don't electric plugs kind of look like they have fangs? Using imagery of that sort whenever you are considering a new electric appliance will go a long way to helping cut back on your electric bills.

[Sweetbeet]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

No LP gas in Hawaii so all household gas is propane.

I think you might mean "no natural gas in Hawaii"; LP = liquid propane, no? Anyway, I agree with everything else you said. We do pretty good cost-wise with all compact fluorescent bulbs, washing in cold/hanging out (our dryer is gas anyway), no A/C, gas water heater/stove/oven/dryer. Gas seems to be a lot cheaper than electricity for heating-type devices.

Solar water heaters are great, but I don't know why the 'backup' has to be electric (not gas). Apparently that's just "how they make them", but our electrician agreed that it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.

[Calico Salsa]

Just a personal note to request folks to consider LED lightbulbs instead of compact fluorescent (CFL).

The CFLs contain a small amount of mercury, which is released into the environment when the bulbs are broken. While the electric and bulb companies scoff at the amount of mercury per bulb ("about the size of the head of a ballpoint pen"), collectively of course this becomes a problem in our landfills and water systems. Nor was anyone who said that willing to ingest that small amount to prove it wasn't dangerous.

The average household has 46 bulbs. If people really do start to use, and eventually discard the CFLs, the amount mercury potentially released has got to be considered. Some places are starting to take the CFLs for more controlled disposal, like batteries, but that isn't in place everywhere and can't always be counted on for compliance.

The mercury in CFLs can also be released as a vapor, if the bulb is broken. That means you can inhale the mercury, not a very good thing for any of us.

LED bulbs, while expensive, last a very long time, produce almost no heat (less cooling costs), and are safer. They are also incredibly energy efficient. While they are not currently dimmable, I hear that there may be new models available early next year that will allow dimming.

You can buy LED bulbs online (just Google it), or on Maui from HNU Energy, a local company that is involved in the research & development of the bulbs. The bulbs are actually made in New Zealand (not China like the CFLs). Buying locally would support our island economics.
HNU Energy - Efficient Lighting and Renewable Energy Services

I believe prices will begin to drop on the LED bulbs as more of them emerge into the marketplace.

[sevenofsix]

Originally Posted by Calico Salsa

Just a personal note to request folks to consider LED lightbulbs instead of compact fluorescent (CFL).

The CFLs contain a small amount of mercury, which is released into the environment when the bulbs are broken. While the electric and bulb companies scoff at the amount of mercury per bulb ("about the size of the head of a ballpoint pen"), collectively of course this becomes a problem in our landfills and water systems. Nor was anyone who said that willing to ingest that small amount to prove it wasn't dangerous.

The average household has 46 bulbs. If people really do start to use, and eventually discard the CFLs, the amount mercury potentially released has got to be considered. Some places are starting to take the CFLs for more controlled disposal, like batteries, but that isn't in place everywhere and can't always be counted on for compliance.

The mercury in CFLs can also be released as a vapor, if the bulb is broken. That means you can inhale the mercury, not a very good thing for any of us.

LED bulbs, while expensive, last a very long time, produce almost no heat (less cooling costs), and are safer. They are also incredibly energy efficient. While they are not currently dimmable, I hear that there may be new models available early next year that will allow dimming.

You can buy LED bulbs online (just Google it), or on Maui from HNU Energy, a local company that is involved in the research & development of the bulbs. The bulbs are actually made in New Zealand (not China like the CFLs). Buying locally would support our island economics.
HNU Energy - Efficient Lighting and Renewable Energy Services

I believe prices will begin to drop on the LED bulbs as more of them emerge into the marketplace.

But it's offset by the amount of lead from coal used in a incandescent lightbulb

[whynot?]

Originally Posted by sevenofsix

But it's offset by the amount of lead from coal used in a incandescent lightbulb

I thought the "problem" with LEDs was lead in the common soldering alloy used to set the LEDs in the bulbs. (Which manufacturers, if I understand correctly, have mostly replaced with a non-lead-content solder due to the EU's strict importation rules for sales there.)

And I thought the problem with coal was the "inefficient" power production plants that burn coal to generate electricity. (Of which incandescents use more than either the CFs or the LEDs.) What's the lead/coal connection?

And surely you do not mean that coal is "used in an incandescent lightbulb." And I thought the point was to get rid of incandescents in the first place. What does this mean?

[hotzcatz]

So far the LED bulbs are not very useful for general lighting. They aren't anywhere near as bright as the CFLs let alone the incandescents. They also are a much "colder" light more like moonlight than sunlight. The next generation of LEDs should be a lot better.

The LEDs we have are good for task lighting if you have a small area you want a spotlight on such as a writing desk, sewing machine, tool work bench, etc. For general room lighting, the just don't quite work yet but the CFLs do that job pretty well.

[Calico Salsa]

It's true that early LEDs have emitted a limited light spectrum. This has been improving, and if the data is available from an LED bulb source, take a look to see what their bulbs cover. The folks at HNU were very informative about how they are developing LEDs that produce a better light than the originals, covering more of the light spectrum so you don't get that cool light you mention. It's the same with how CFLs developed - the first ones were really awful, but they improved rapidly. LEDs are improving as more companies develop them, and of course as more people buy them and encourage the manufacturers.

It is also true that right now for a standard socket you can only get about a 40 watt light equivalent. Most people use 60s in their fixtures, so a 40 will seem not as bright. There are going to be LEDs coming out that will be brighter. Many of us have ceiling fans with 4 or 5 lights. Replacing 2 or 3 of these with an LED would still provide as much light as most people need, and also the mixed light would be less of a change for people.

For outside lighting, there are LED floods that are very bright. Outside floods use a lot of energy, as do inside floods. Often people have a whole row of floods in a track, or several in the same vicinity in their ceiling. If you can replace even some of these with LEDs, the cost savings is great and the mixed light is pretty good.

Not sure I understand about coal and incandescent bulbs. LEDs are not incandescent. CFLs not only contain mercury, but of course the mercury risks to the workers manufacturing them is terrible. With China as the lead manufacturer of CFLs, some consider that "not our problem" and yet it is. On a global scale, polluting anywhere is terrible. On a connected-economic level, what happens in China absolutely does affect the US economy too.

[sevenofsix]

oops I meant mercury, my vision is a little off