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There is racism everywhere. People have preconcieved notions from past experiances.
I have had to deal with it from college on. I deal with it every day. In Chicago city contracts go to business owned by women, blacks, hispanics, asian, diabled, gay or any other minority company, and THEN, if they cant fullfill the positions can white males apply. I've been pased up for a promotion with HR saying; "We really need a black person in the position"
In Japan certain stores would not sell to me.
In Philadelphia I was going to a public pool and was stopped by someone saying; "this is not for you".
So we all experiance problems.
My time in Hawaii was nothing compared to what I have to deal with every day on the mainland.
There is racism everywhere. People have preconcieved notions from past experiances.
I have had to deal with it from college on. I deal with it every day. In Chicago city contracts go to business owned by women, blacks, hispanics, asian, diabled, gay or any other minority company, and THEN, if they cant fullfill the positions can white males apply. I've been pased up for a promotion with HR saying; "We really need a black person in the position"
In Japan certain stores would not sell to me.
In Philadelphia I was going to a public pool and was stopped by someone saying; "this is not for you".
So we all experiance problems.
My time in Hawaii was nothing compared to what I have to deal with every day on the mainland.
This is where I always get puzzled by the Hawaii racism threads.
I live in Japan, and never had that experience ever - of a store that refused to sell something to me. Never experienced it. (I'm white).
I'm not discounting everything you say...but I wonder why one white would experience that in the plural (stores) and another like myself would have never experienced it in 3+ years of living here.
This is where I always get puzzled by the Hawaii racism threads.
I live in Japan, and never had that experience ever - of a store that refused to sell something to me. Never experienced it. (I'm white).
I'm not discounting everything you say...but I wonder why one white would experience that in the plural (stores) and another like myself would have never experienced it in 3+ years of living here.
Racism in Hawaii is a disgrace. Unfortunately it is accepted as a cultural thing that gets handed down. Too many justify the behavior by tying first impressions of Haole's to what other Haole's have said or done. It is ugly and blatant racism at its worst.
If I were to meet a black or hispanic man on the mainland and view them negatively based on previous experiences whith other blacks or hispanics it would make me racist. If I view blacks or hispanics as inferior because my father raised me to believe it, I would be a racist. For the most part such beliefs and behaviors are here, but kept in the shadows. Publicly displaying these beliefs is frowned upon by the majority.
I see frequent advice being given on how to keep your head down or adapt as a haole. I don't see the outrage or embarassment from locals who's peers act in such a disgraceful way. People should stop explaining it away and call it what it is, abhorent racism.
The Polynesian culture puts so much value on friends and family, it's remarkable. It's equally remarkable how the same culture can allow such disrespectful and borish behavior to prevail out in the open.
Racism in Hawaii is a disgrace. Unfortunately it is accepted as a cultural thing that gets handed down. Too many justify the behavior by tying first impressions of Haole's to what other Haole's have said or done. It is ugly and blatant racism at its worst.
If I were to meet a black or hispanic man on the mainland and view them negatively based on previous experiences whith other blacks or hispanics it would make me racist. If I view blacks or hispanics as inferior because my father raised me to believe it, I would be a racist. For the most part such beliefs and behaviors are here, but kept in the shadows. Publicly displaying these beliefs is frowned upon by the majority.
I see frequent advice being given on how to keep your head down or adapt as a haole. I don't see the outrage or embarassment from locals who's peers act in such a disgraceful way. People should stop explaining it away and call it what it is, abhorent racism.
The Polynesian culture puts so much value on friends and family, it's remarkable. It's equally remarkable how the same culture can allow such disrespectful and borish behavior to prevail out in the open.
A mere 250 years ago, the kapu system was still in effect in Hawai'i. Hawaiians weren't exactly living in harmony and some lives were considered more valuable than others -- simply because of geneaology. There was a fairly rigid "caste" system in place that had ali'i (chiefs) at the top, followed by kāhuna (priests), maka'āinana (commoners) and kauwā (outcasts, slaves) at the bottom. At heiau po'o kanaka or luakini (places of worship where human sacrifices were offered) such as Pu'ukoholā and Mo'okini on Big Island, human sacrifices were the norm and kauwā, maka'āinana, and ali'i (that were defeated in battle) were often the "sacrifice of choice." As abhorrent as racism is, it can be considered an improvement compared to what went on under the kapu system.
Tiger Beer, I have to wonder where in Japan you live. I have lived in Japan and have traveled regularly
to Japan since the very early 1980's. That's over thirty years. I have been throughout Hokkaido, Honshu and Shikoku and Okinawa. I've been refused service at snacks; not allowed into onsen resorts; refused rooms at hotels and ryokan's, and completely ignored by staff at department stores even while asking for assistence in Japanese. I will say this has never happend to me in Tokyo or Kyoto, however it has occured just about everywhere else. I will add that it has gotten better...perhaps because I am now an old bastard with white hair and beard and I'm given a pass, however I still am acutely aware of it at a crowded crosswalk where people are standing absolutely together while waiting for the light to change, and the gaijin (me) is given a wide radius of separation by all those standing next to him (me).
Just counted them, looks like there 20 signs throughout Japan. None are any where near my Osaka/Kyoto/Kobe area.
Im pretty sure these are most likely the very expensive hostess types of bars. The kind with non-English staff who can't explain to wandering foreigners that they entering into a very expensive tipoff place that only high end corporate account generally Japanese people would consider.
If you are a gaijin who speaks Japanese though and they can make sure everyone knows how much money you're going to be out once you try to step out of such places, they'll let you right in.
Tiger Beer, I have to wonder where in Japan you live. I have lived in Japan and have traveled regularly
to Japan since the very early 1980's. That's over thirty years. I have been throughout Hokkaido, Honshu and Shikoku and Okinawa. I've been refused service at snacks; not allowed into onsen resorts; refused rooms at hotels and ryokan's, and completely ignored by staff at department stores even while asking for assistence in Japanese. I will say this has never happend to me in Tokyo or Kyoto, however it has occured just about everywhere else. I will add that it has gotten better...perhaps because I am now an old bastard with white hair and beard and I'm given a pass, however I still am acutely aware of it at a crowded crosswalk where people are standing absolutely together while waiting for the light to change, and the gaijin (me) is given a wide radius of separation by all those standing next to him (me).
I have had the hotel thing, but can't differentiate if it's been a no vacancy thing or a racist thing. I just assumed it was a no vacancy thing.
Osaka, and I lived in Niigata. I also lived in South Korea, another place where tons of white people claim constant racist behavior occurring to them all the time.
I always thought that white people in Korea could at times make a legitimate complaint, but since I lived in japan, I just see so much less of it.
I've heard that Japanese think it, they just don't say it. koreans say and think it. I've heard of the foreigner who gets space on a train or whatever else in japan and when I lived in Korea. I've never been lucky enough to be one of those foreigners, seems like people always sit right next to me.
I'm also a similar body weight to most Japanese/Koreans, and I avoid sitting next to larger people, but I always wonder if foreigners who do get the avoidance it's because their body weight is a lot larger? Not sure, as I don't get that either.
Anyways I heard japan was a lot worse 30 years ago, and I know Korea definitely was when I moved there starting in the mid-1990s.
Tiger Beer Wrote:
"I'm also a similar body weight to most Japanese/Koreans, and I avoid..."
Ahhh, that might likely explain it. You probably shop and purchase most of your clothes and shoes at Japanese shops and dressing according to Japanese standard. If you speak polite Japanese with a light accent and read too, I can understand you not having any troubles. I absolutely love Osaka. People there speak their minds, enjoy a good party and don't have their noses up in the air like the folks in Tokyo. Osaka is truly a wonderful city with open, great people.
Tiger Beer Wrote:
"I'm also a similar body weight to most Japanese/Koreans, and I avoid..."
Ahhh, that might likely explain it. You probably shop and purchase most of your clothes and shoes at Japanese shops and dressing according to Japanese standard. If you speak polite Japanese with a light accent and read too, I can understand you not having any troubles. I absolutely love Osaka. People there speak their minds, enjoy a good party and don't have their noses up in the air like the folks in Tokyo. Osaka is truly a wonderful city with open, great people.
Well, you're projecting a ton of other characteristics, none of which apply to me.
But, I do find Osaka much more open than Tokyo.
But Tokyo's often at times anal-retentiveness is something that all people observe and notice, even Japanese. It's not something that solely comes out when a foreigner is around.
Which is the reason I struggle with the often-thrown around word of 'racist', and what are just things that locals would do regardless.
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