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During the debate before ACA, one talking point of the Libs was that healthcare debt was "responsible" for a large portion of bankruptcy filings....
I always found that hard to believe. I should think that, given the very liberal (no pun intended) laws concerning medical debt repayment, that the truth is probably that medical debt might be named as a coincidental debt source in a court filing, but other things (like credit card debt & mortgages) are the real "cause." The med debt is just along for the ride.
Any one have data one way or the other?
Please cite a source for the 'liberal laws' you know of on repayment of medical debt. This is pretty much a state by state issue. Further, health care providers these days have become quite ruthless on collection.
Even in the 'liberal' states, unless repayment arrangements are made, most medical bills are routinely sent for collection within a matter of months. Many here will pay a disputed bill while negotiating to avoid a credit ding.
Further, some health care providers won't establish a repayment plan longer than one year - which makes repayment almost impossible for many. For the working, wages have not kept up with medical costs.
Yes, one way or another, medical costs - either due to loss of wages and/or actual services - can result in a bankruptcy filing.
For Medicare people, unless one is afflicted with issues not covered by Medicare (rare), generally Medicare and a good Medigap and Part D plan will make these expenses manageable. However, insurance premiums/drug copays aren't always low. Many who can't afford or don't want to pay for a Medigap, enroll in Advantage instead, exposing themselves to never-ending copays/coinsurance in excess of what they would have paid for a Medigap. Some low-income on Medicare do qualify for Medicaid which pays all costs but can severely limit choice of providers.
None of the above is to say, however, the over-65's don't find medical expenses onerous. Many do file for bankruptcy.
During the debate before ACA, one talking point of the Libs was that healthcare debt was "responsible" for a large portion of bankruptcy filings....
I always found that hard to believe. I should think that, given the very liberal (no pun intended) laws concerning medical debt repayment, that the truth is probably that medical debt might be named as a coincidental debt source in a court filing, but other things (like credit card debt & mortgages) are the real "cause." The med debt is just along for the ride.
Any one have data one way or the other?
I've worked in the insurance industry for 30 years. Medical debt can be crushing to anyone who has a major accident or a serious illness even if you have insurance coverage. It's not a myth. I see families lives ruined daily.
Some states and providers are very aggressive about collecting medical debt. Your wages can be garnished, credit destroyed and liens can be filed against your property. If you have bad credit lots of companies won't hire you for a decent job since everyone runs background and credit checks now.
One round of chemo therapy can cost 100k or more. If your insurance denies that you are screwed. Very few people have 100k just lying around.
Medical care is extremely expensive these days and contrary to popular belief lots of providers are NOT going to negotiate with you. They want to be paid in full, NOW. Imagine if you were sick and went to your mailbox to find a bill for 100k. That's a really bad day...
I broke my ankle a few years ago. The hospital claim was over 40k. I owed 10k out of pocket and I work for an insurance company...lol.
One round of chemo therapy can cost 100k or more. If your insurance denies that you are screwed. Very few people have 100k just lying around.
A story about how ugly things can get- this is from 1997 but I suspect things haven't gotten any better since then. My first husband went in for inpatient alcohol rehab. He'd been unemployed for 4 years and I was working FT. He said he'd submit the bills to my insurance company. I should have known better- he had no patience with paperwork- but I was trying to work for a living, keep our finances above water, keep DS sane, etc. We got a few Late notices from the hospital. He said he'd take care of them.
Then the manager of the small consulting firm where I worked called me in and said he'd gotten a notice to garnish my wages. Well, the Ex had no income but I did. Since it was for essential services they could go after me. At that point our divorce was close to final and my attorney was able to call them off. I called the hospital several times asking for itemized bills so I could submit them to the insurance. I got one that added up to $40. I got the remaining detail only because my attorney's niece worked for the hospital's law firm. At the divorce, the bills were paid out of my Ex's share of the house proceeds and I then reimbursed him as I got payments from the insurance company.
A year later the hospital called asking for donations to their capital campaign. I didn't give them a dime and wrote to the President of the hospital telling him why.
IMO, he never intended to kill himself. His excuse of not killing himself is weak. " Court paperwork indicated Smith planned on shooting himself, as well, but decided against it because there would be no one to explain what happened. "
During the debate before ACA, one talking point of the Libs was that healthcare debt was "responsible" for a large portion of bankruptcy filings....
I always found that hard to believe. I should think that, given the very liberal (no pun intended) laws concerning medical debt repayment, that the truth is probably that medical debt might be named as a coincidental debt source in a court filing, but other things (like credit card debt & mortgages) are the real "cause." The med debt is just along for the ride.
Any one have data one way or the other?
You haven’t been paying much attention, have you? Pop on over to Quora.com and read story after story of lives ruined. And you can look up your own data if you care to.
A study done by Harvard showed bankruptcy filings based solely or mostly on med debt only amounted to 4% of cases.
“Based on our estimate of 4 percent of bankruptcy filings per year and the approximately 800,000 bankruptcy filings per year, our number would be much closer to something on the order of 30,000-50,000 bankruptcies caused by a hospitalization,” one of the co-authors of the NEJM study, economist Raymond Kluender of Harvard Business School, wrote in an email."
4% is a small number, but that amounts to 30-50,000 individuals/families ruined by medical debt each year.
It's a big problem to the individuals, but 10x smaller than claimed by the politicians and those who believe them without seeking the truth.
In regards "liberal settlements" it was my experience, having been on the staffs of three different hospitals, that they are very willing to discuss affordable payment plans, often writing off a good deal of the expenses. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Anecdotally, I remember one case where a 60y/o guy, heavy smoker, came to me and complained of increasing cough, blood in the sputum and weight loss. You know what I suspected, ordered a chest x-ray, and, sure enough, it showed a large tumor....I said to him, " Joe, I'm afraid you have lung cancer." ...Quiet for a moment, he asked "How long to do give me, Doc?"..."Only about three months," was my sad answer....."Gee, when things go wrong, they really go wrong. I'm out of work right now too, and won't be able to pay you right away."...."Oh, in that case, Joe, I'll give you six months."
Last edited by guidoLaMoto; 04-24-2020 at 05:54 AM..
A study done by Harvard showed bankruptcy filings based solely or mostly on med debt only amounted to 4% of cases.
It's a big problem to the individuals, but 10x smaller than claimed by the politicians and those who believe them without seeking the truth.
There are many ways to interpret the data. You've cherry-picked a conclusion from one small study of hospitalized patients. The author acknowledges that "some people could still face high levels of medical debt without ever going through a hospital, and they wouldn’t be counted in the NEJM study."
Quote:
A group of researchers tried that approach in a peer-reviewed study published by the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) in 2018. Looking at a random sample of California hospital patients between 2003 and 2007, they found that medical bankruptcies represented 4 percent of all bankruptcies. The patients were between ages 25 and 64 and included only those admitted to a hospital for non-birth-related reasons.
“Based on our estimate of 4 percent of bankruptcy filings per year and the approximately 800,000 bankruptcy filings per year, our number would be much closer to something on the order of 30,000-50,000 bankruptcies caused by a hospitalization,” one of the co-authors of the NEJM study, economist Raymond Kluender of Harvard Business School, wrote in an email.
“This would lead us to be skeptical of the 500,000 medical bankruptcies statistic, but that very much depends on how one defines a medical bankruptcy. … An enormous share of households have some amount of medical debt, so any survey of individuals will report a high share of them have medical debt but this does not imply that the debt caused them to file for bankruptcy.”
Truth is for most people claiming bankruptcy, quit paying their bills for months before filing and not paying medical bills is just a fraction of what they owe, but it always garners more sympathy by saying you filed because of medical bills. All of these statistics making that claim are bogus. Show me someone who claimed bankruptcy claiming only medical bills.
Truth is for most people claiming bankruptcy, quit paying their bills for months before filing and not paying medical bills is just a fraction of what they owe, but it always garners more sympathy by saying you filed because of medical bills. All of these statistics making that claim are bogus. Show me someone who claimed bankruptcy claiming only medical bills.
Are you serious? Surely you know more about indebtedness and bankruptcy than this. A pure play of only medical bills?
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Since it was for essential services they could go after me. At that point our divorce was close to final and my attorney was able to call them off. I called the hospital several times asking for itemized bills so I could submit them to the insurance. I got one that added up to $40. I got the remaining detail only because my attorney's niece worked for the hospital's law firm. At the divorce, the bills were paid out of my Ex's share of the house proceeds and I then reimbursed him as I got payments from the insurance company.
I didn't give them a dime and wrote to the President of the hospital telling him why.
