Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Don't forget the evil drums, or "Tom Tom's" were not allowed by the Grond Ole Opry. Drums would conjure up images of primitives circling the campfire, working themselves into a frenzy and all that. White country musicians would not be seen playing the drums, and the horn section was usually missing too. Horns were instruments to be played by big city jazz musicians, and not a part of the "Country" sound, for the most part. The drums, saxophone and electric guitar gave rock a new sound that made it vibrant and popular. Rock was experimental and inovative, while country remained based on traditional, dating back to the western and mountain music of the american frontier.
It took the British Invasion to wake up rock & roll. And even then, the Beatles, Stones, Animals, etc all wore conservative suits and smiled a lot so as to appear safe, when in reality, they were already bedding groupies and smoking joints.
In her bio that had came out several years ago Ronnie Spector had made a claim that the first time she had ever seen "group sex" was when the Beatles were bedding a few girls in a New York City hotel shortly after they had appeared on Ed Sullivan.
According to the radio program "Supergold", several years ago they told the same story as well but they added that two of the women that the Beatles had bedded during their early years ( 1964 ) were Connie Hines ( Mr. ED ) and Dawn Wells, Mary Ann from Gilligan's Island.
Don't forget the evil drums, or "Tom Tom's" were not allowed by the Grond Ole Opry. Drums would conjure up images of primitives circling the campfire, working themselves into a frenzy and all that. White country musicians would not be seen playing the drums, and the horn section was usually missing too. Horns were instruments to be played by big city jazz musicians, and not a part of the "Country" sound, for the most part. The drums, saxophone and electric guitar gave rock a new sound that made it vibrant and popular. Rock was experimental and inovative, while country remained based on traditional, dating back to the western and mountain music of the american frontier.
That's pretty oversimplified and frankly, not all that accurate. The bit about drums not being allowed on the Grand Ole Opry is true, but you're not acknowledging that Bob Wills (who brought them on anyway) was asked to be on the Opry only after he was immensely popular already (he'd been a star since the mid 30's), and it happened in 1945, nearly a decade before rock'n'roll. The Opry also put up one hell of a fight when Pee Wee King brought on an accordian, which is not exactly the most hip of instruments. Essentially, the Opry started as a southeastern string band show, and was loath to broaden itself to encompass any western styles at all.
The electric guitar was in use by country musicians (most notably western swing and Texas honky tonkers like Ernest Tubb) by the early 40's. Making the switch to a solid body guitar when you've already gone electric is not much of a jump. Also worth noting is that early rhythm and blues bands (through to the early 50's) didn't feature the guitar as a solo instrument very often.
Jimmie Rodgers often recorded with a horn player, or even a whole horn section, and that didn't stop him from being probably the most revered figure in country music.
That's just a few examples off the top of my head, but I think it makes a pretty clear point that instrumentation had nothing whatsoever to do with the backlash against rock'n'roll.
As far as the racial aspects go, I'm curious to know if there was any backlash against jazz or swing in the 30's and 40's.
Don't forget the evil drums, or "Tom Tom's" were not allowed by the Grond Ole Opry. Drums would conjure up images of primitives circling the campfire, working themselves into a frenzy and all that. White country musicians would not be seen playing the drums, and the horn section was usually missing too. Horns were instruments to be played by big city jazz musicians, and not a part of the "Country" sound, for the most part. The drums, saxophone and electric guitar gave rock a new sound that made it vibrant and popular. Rock was experimental and inovative, while country remained based on traditional, dating back to the western and mountain music of the american frontier.
Tom-toms, right!
In 1952 the extremely popular yellow journalism writers, Jack Lait and Lee Mortimer informed Americans in their latest book, U.S.A. Confidential, that juvenile delinquency is linked "with tom-toms and hot jive and ritualistic orgies of erotic dancing, weed-smoking and mass mania, with African jungle background. Many music shops purvey dope; assignations are made in them. White girls are recruited for colored lovers....We know that many platter-spinners [DJ's] are hopheads. Many others are Reds, left-wingers or hecklers of social convention....[teenagers] frequent places the radio oracles plug, which is done with design...to hook juves [teenagers] and guarantee a new generation subservient to the Mafia.”
In case you lost the thread in the midst of this stunning purple prose, these guys were talking seriously about early 1950's rock n roll music and its influence!
Up until 1949 Billboard magazine, the weekly bible of the music industry, always used the accepted term "race music" to describe record sales charts of music by black artists intended for the "Negro" market. In that year it substituted the term Rhythm & Blues coined by one of their white reporters, Jerry Wexler, who thought "race music" was demeaning. And it was R&B - that same "race music" with a new name -which took hold of white teenagers, like myself, in some metro areas in the very early 50's.
In 1956 Rock n Roll was denounced as "a plot to mongrelize America." A White Citizens' Council spokesman in Alabama said, "We have set up a 20-man committee to do away with this vulgar, animalistic, n****r rock and roll bop."
Even outside of the South its racially mixed teenage audiences upset parents and officials used to codes of customary, if not legislated, segregation R&R too unabashedly celebrated the urban world and teenage energy, neither of which had been the fare of the previous Hit Parade music of the late Forties.
Year-end music industry statistics showed that 68% of the music played by radio DJ's was rock 'n' roll recordings, two-thirds more than in the previous year. At the end of the following year every song on Billboard magazine's Top Ten was a R&R one.
In 1957 American Bandstand with Dick Clark went national on TV - it featured a squeaky clean, overwhelmingly white group of on-camera teenagers, and while initially featuring black R&B and R&R performers it rapidly became a major promotional vehicle for white teen idol shlock rock. In the same year, Allan Freed's one-week old ABC-TV Big Beat dance show was cancelled when black teenage singer Frankie Lyman danced with a white girl on camera - and this was in New York City, not the Deep South.
A virtual war still being waged against rock and roll music in 1958. For example, Vance Packard, popular author of Hidden Persuaders, as he testified before a Senate subcommittee regarding the Smathers Bill of 1958, said that rock and roll was "inspired by what has been called race music, modified to stir the animal instinct in teenagers. Its chief characteristics now are a heavy, unrelenting beat and a raw, savage tone. The lyrics tend to be nonsensical or lewd, or both. Rock and roll might best be summed up as monotony tinged with hysteria.”
This is U.S. Senate testimony about pop music of all things.
But going back to the issue of race...didn't Charlie Pride receive any flak for being a Black man who plays country music? Or by the 60's, people for the most part had no problem with the idea?
Initially they concealed Charley Pride's race. His first 3 hit singles were released with no cover picture. At his first public appearance there was thunderous applause which died down to silence, but in the end, after the concert, he was besieged by people seeking his autograph.
As far as the racial aspects go, I'm curious to know if there was any backlash against jazz or swing in the 30's and 40's.
Yes. My dad, a musician himself, used to say that when Black bands played swing or jazz back then it was called, by some people, "Darky Music". A lot of people wouldn't listen to Black bands. (He, on the other hand, searched out the juke joints in Georgia when he was stationed there for part of WWII. Apparently, he'd be the only white guy in the place. He wasn't one to care. He just wanted to hear the music.)
There was some good rock and roll in the early 60s, before the British Invasion. I still like my Freddy Cannon records. I think of it as the Dick Clark period, when Philadelphia's influence was really strong. And don't forget, surf and hotrod music came out then too. Roy Orbison was still making good records. There was a lot there.
I certainly am not discounting the British Invasion! I loved almost all of that too. In addition to The Beatles, I've always been partial to The Dave Clark Five and Peter & Gordon.
There is a lot of dross in every musical period, but there is also good stuff.
There was some good rock and roll in the early 60s, before the British Invasion. I still like my Freddy Cannon records. I think of it as the Dick Clark period, when Philadelphia's influence was really strong. And don't forget, surf and hotrod music came out then too. Roy Orbison was still making good records. There was a lot there.
I certainly am not discounting the British Invasion! I loved almost all of that too. In addition to The Beatles, I've always been partial to The Dave Clark Five and Peter & Gordon.
There is a lot of dross in every musical period, but there is also good stuff.
The notion of 'no good rock and roll being made in the early '60s" is blatantly ridiculous ; even the notion of "no good rock and roll being made by white artists in the early '60s" is absurd.
What happened was that many white artists from the pre-Beatles era stopped having hits after 1964 or 1965 and thus fell into commercial obscurity, even if they were still making good records. Thus they became forgotten.
Black performers who were successful in the early '60s like Ray Charles, James Brown, the Motown acts, etc. continued to be successful. Even those who dropped off the "pop" charts like Jackie Wilson, Little Anthony, Bobby "Blue" Bland, etc. continued to be successful on the R&B charts. The only major African-American artist of that period who didn't continue to be successful was Little Richard, and that was due to his own personal and business problems. If Richard had been signed to Stax-Volt, had been backed by the MGs, and had the Stax songwriters writing for him, he could've maintained his success. (With more success he probably would've been more motivated to write more songs, too.) Otis Redding, whose style was inspired by Richard's, got VERY successful in the mid-'60s, much more than in the early '60s. As it was the British Invasion acts like the Beatles and Animals were doing his songs and having great success with them.
That's pretty oversimplified and frankly, not all that accurate. The bit about drums not being allowed on the Grand Ole Opry is true, but you're not acknowledging that Bob Wills (who brought them on anyway) was asked to be on the Opry only after he was immensely popular already (he'd been a star since the mid 30's), and it happened in 1945, nearly a decade before rock'n'roll.
The Opry banned Wills because they thought he was playing "jazz", which wasn't that far from the truth. The Texas Playboys were a big band with drums, horns, and an electric guitar, and their "Western Swing" often veered into jazz territory.
Wills in 1956 when asked about the new rock and roll said he'd been playing rock and roll for 20 years.
Quote:
The Opry also put up one hell of a fight when Pee Wee King brought on an accordian, which is not exactly the most hip of instruments. Essentially, the Opry started as a southeastern string band show, and was loath to broaden itself to encompass any western styles at all.
True. California country music - which came out of Western Swing - used electric guitars and drums, and the Opry wasn't that friendly to it.
Quote:
The electric guitar was in use by country musicians (most notably western swing and Texas honky tonkers like Ernest Tubb) by the early 40's. Making the switch to a solid body guitar when you've already gone electric is not much of a jump.
Leo Fender invented the solid body guitar specifically for Western Swing players. The first Fender guitar NOT designed for country music was the Jazzmaster, which despite the name was intended as a Rhythm & Blues/Rock & Roll guitar (i.e. music made predominately by African-Americans was considered "jazz"), as opposed to the Telecaster, Esquire, and Stratocaster which were intended for country musicians. (Not that it stopped rock, blues, and R&B players from playing them)
Quote:
Also worth noting is that early rhythm and blues bands (through to the early 50's) didn't feature the guitar as a solo instrument very often.
T-Bone Walker did, and Louis Jordan's band did (although Jordan was a sax player). Most of the R&B bands featured the main instrument of their leader as the main solo instrument - whether it was piano, horns, or guitar.
Quote:
Jimmie Rodgers often recorded with a horn player, or even a whole horn section, and that didn't stop him from being probably the most revered figure in country music.
The rules weren't "set" yet in his time.
Quote:
That's just a few examples off the top of my head, but I think it makes a pretty clear point that instrumentation had nothing whatsoever to do with the backlash against rock'n'roll.
As far as the racial aspects go, I'm curious to know if there was any backlash against jazz or swing in the 30's and 40's.
The Opry banned Wills because they thought he was playing "jazz", which wasn't that far from the truth. The Texas Playboys were a big band with drums, horns, and an electric guitar, and their "Western Swing" often veered into jazz territory.
Wills in 1956 when asked about the new rock and roll said he'd been playing rock and roll for 20 years.
that's my point essentially. The lines were blurred very, very early. Far earlier than the rock'n'roll era. The Opry, being only one voice from the country music establishment (probably the most conservative one). They asked him on because he had a huge following amongst their audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun
The rules weren't "set" yet in his time.
It was only 4 years after his death that the Opry fought with Pee Wee King about his accordian and only 12 years until they fought with Bob Wills about drums.
What strikes me as curious about the backlash against rock'n'roll (and maybe rockabilly more specifically) is that performers such as Rodgers and Wills were blending elements of jazz, blues and ragtime into their music 2 decades before rockabilly, and yet outside of extreme conservatives, such as the Opry management (the audiences, so far as I'm aware loved Wills and Pee Wee King, despite their "unconventional" instruments), I'm not aware of much of a backlash against them.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
