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This is sort of a companion thread to the recent one which asked whether the Nazis or the Soviets were worse in terms of their brutality and their evil. This provoked a lot of impassioned debate, much of which involved wondering if some other nations had been equally brutal and evil in various other places and times. So I am going to widen the field and ask which one of these eleven instances was the worst. I also ask whether I have forgotten any since 1492 which should be included. One thing which I think is clear is that no race, no country, no group has a monopoly on "inhuman" horrific behavior, which may be sadly "human" after all. So here I go, in rough chronological order:
1. Colonization of the New World by Europe The main countries involved were Spain, England, France, and Portugal. It is widely agreed that native Americans died in droves, both from European diseases to which they had no immunity and from direct warfare, and that they were dispossed of their lands.
2. Slavery in the New World The United States was not the only country to hold African slaves, of course. And the horrific nature of the ship transportation across the Atlantic is well known. In the U.S., and possibly elsewhere, the evils of slavery did not end when the slavery did but continued on to the Jim Crow era which reached into the 1960's.
3. King Leopold of Belgium in the Congo Between 1885 and 1908 the brutality was sickening - even children had one arm cut off if they did not work hard enough or otherwise comply with orders.
4. Armenian genocide at the hands of the Ottoman Turks This occurred mostly between 1915 and 1917, but there were also earlier incidents. Between one million and one and a half million Armenians died, and it remains a source of bitterness to this day.
5. Soviet purges and induced famines Stalin was cruel to the core and cared not a whit for the lives of his own people. It is well documented that many millions died.
6. Japanese brutality in occupied China, 1938 to 1945 This was not only an occupation, it was a systematically brutal one in which millions of Chinese died.
7. Nazi extermination of the Jews Nazi brutality was not limited to the well documented killing of about 6 million Jews, but extended to the nature of their conduct in the war against the Soviet Union, in which millions of Soviet prisoners died in German hands.
8. Mass bombings of cilvilian populations in World War II While the Japanese and the Germans were the first to bomb large cities, the British and the Americans trumped them many-fold because they developped bigger bombers and stronger air forces. The B-29 (used only in the Pacific, not in Europe) was the largest mass-produced bomber the world had ever seen up to that time. And then of course the atomic bomb was used on two Japanese cities in August, 1945, forcing Japan's surrender and saving Japanese lives in the agregate (as well as American lives, which was the purpose). Nonetheless, it was still horrific.
9. Pol Pot in Cambodia, 1975 to 1979 Well known and horrific mass killings.
10. Mao Zedong in China, 1975 and later The so called Great Leap Forward was a total disaster and caused millions of deaths. Later on, there was a lot of killing during the period when the youthful Red Guards were encouraged to challenge everyone and everything and a violent anarchy ensued.
11. Rwanda, 1994 The brevity of this killing period is remarkable when we consider the numbers: during only 100 days about 800,000 Rwandans were killed, mostly Tutsis killed by Hutus. And it was mostly by knives and machetes, so enormous numbers of perpetrators were involved.
I do not claim that my eleven examples cover all killing and brutality since 1492 - far from it. I was trying to limit myself to the instances where the scope and extent (i.e., the numbers) were especially astounding.
Last edited by Escort Rider; 12-24-2010 at 08:48 PM..
Is there a particular reason you chose 1492 as your date? Why not anything prior? Agenda at work perhaps?
No, no agenda. 1492 was the first voyage of discovery by Colombus, hence the starting point for the European colonization of the New World. I just did not feel that my knowledge of world history was adequate to attempt the same discussion starting with ancient history. And can you imagine how long that thread would be? Also, I was coming off of the debate about the Nazis versus the Soviet Union, so I tried to emcompass the examples that others gave there. I am curious what agenda you suspected. Genuinely curious, no hostility implied.
Killings and genocides are implicit in human history.
The only difference is that during the XXth Century genocides were planned from Ministeries.
The most dangerous genocides are the ones planned from Centralized economies (Marxist Leninist) since they control every aspect of society.
Killings and genocides are implicit in human history.
The only difference is that during the XXth Century genocides were planned from Ministeries.
The most dangerous genocides are the ones planned from Centralized economies (Marxist Leninist) since they control every aspect of society.
The only problem with that argument is that not all "communist" countries experienced either large scale famines or mass killings.
We can start with 1492 itself, when, as Queen Isabella was feeding Columbus with one hand, with the other she was expelling all the Jews from Spain, literally within days of the departure of Columbus.
This was tantamount to a genocidal massacre. As soon as the Jews were on the road or at sea, stripped of most of their possessions and all their livelihood, the great majority of them perished at the hands of the Christians in other lands, or even at sea before they got there. Few survived, except those who reached Muslim lands, where they were generally given refuge and allowed to live in safety and dignity.
We can start with 1492 itself, when, as Queen Isabella was feeding Columbus with one hand, with the other she was expelling all the Jews from Spain, literally within days of the departure of Columbus.
This was tantamount to a genocidal massacre. As soon as the Jews were on the road or at sea, stripped of most of their possessions and all their livelihood, the great majority of them perished at the hands of the Christians in other lands, or even at sea before they got there. Few survived, except those who reached Muslim lands, where they were generally given refuge and allowed to live in safety and dignity.
If that is the reason, maybe you can start with other expulsion of jews before that:
Given that two of those French expulsions happened within a short period, and there are some Jews in France whose roots there date back at least to the Middle Ages, I wonder how "thorough" those expulsions were.
Edward I's expulsion of England's Jews was total although not particularly bloody. Jews didn't drift back into England until Henry VIII's time, although they weren't publically "readmitted" until Cromwell. Jews in England in the interim had to keep their religion secret, and publically were considered "Spaniards". Scotland OTOH never expelled its Jews (although most of Scottish Jewry descends from 19th and 20th century immigrants, not the medieval Jewish population).
Never heard of the expulsion of Jews from Austria, given how many Jews in the US have roots in Austria itself and given how large Austria's Jewish population was before the Holocaust I suspect it was more on the level of pogroms than outright expulsion.
Speaking of pogroms: those which occurred under the last two czars qualify as genocide, and a very bloody one at that, given that there was a deliberate attempt to kill one third of the Jewish population of the Russian Empire. (Another third was to be converted and the remaining third was to be expelled.)
Spain expelled Jews in part because European pressure. The great university of La Sorbonne praised Ferdinand and Isabella stating that they had taken their right steps. By then, France considered it an act of modernity. The expulsion of Jews was not cruel and they could take their belongings and convert, wether Muslims were not given that opportunity.
Those Jews in France that can date their origin to Middle Ages are "returnees". In Spain there are Sephardic jews that can rightfully claim medieval Castillian and Catalan lineage, but they are "returnees". In Mallorca there are cryptojews that have returned to their faith.
This was tantamount to a genocidal massacre. As soon as the Jews were on the road or at sea, stripped of most of their possessions and all their livelihood, the great majority of them perished at the hands of the Christians in other lands, or even at sea before they got there. Few survived, except those who reached Muslim lands, where they were generally given refuge and allowed to live in safety and dignity.
Not all Jews fleeing Spain and Portugal went to Muslim lands, remember those who settled in the Netherlands - I'm thinking of the family of the philosopher Baruch Spinoza, and those Jewish friends the sublime master Rembrandt Van Rijn cultivated such friends as Rabbi Manasseh Ben Israel and Rabbi Ephraim Bueno. Rembrandt had a great affinity and affection for Jews, bought a fine townhouse on the edge of the Jewish Quarter near several synagogues, and created beautiful etchings to illustrate published books authored by his Rabbinic friends. Not to mention the Jewish themes of so many of his great paintings such as "The Jewish Bride."
Some Jews also made it to the New World - first to Brazil where they were expelled once again, then to the Caribbean, and finally to Nieuw Amsterdam.
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No agenda
