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Thanks again, NJGOAT, for another clear explanation of an arcane system.
I read in the newspaper recently that some in Britain are calling for a change in the royal inheritance rules, specifically to eliminate the preference for males over females. They want the eldest child to inherit regardless of gender. So, for example, if William & Kate had a daughter first, she would become Queen even if a boy was born to them later.
Doing so would refute the rules in place put forward by the Act of Union in 1800 as well as the Act of Settlement in 1701. These laws provide that the succession follow male-preference primogeniture and must trace their lines back to Sophia, Electress of Hannover. They also specify that the monarch cannot be Catholic, nor can they marry a Catholic, among other things.
The issue for the royals is that it is about more than just what the UK decides. There are 15 other Commonwealth realms of which they are sovereign. Each of these has their own rules of succession that could be changed independently. Some of them simply follow whatever standard the UK sets, while others have matched that system, but would need to be decided individually. It would be possible for one of the Commonwealth nations to not match the UK system and you would end up with different monarchs for different realms. Again, it's possible, but highly unlikely.
This was one of the issues when Edward VIII abdicated. Each of the Commonwealth nations needed to agree to the abdication and pass laws allowing it to happen, overriding the Act of Union and Act of Settlement.
The point is rather moot though as the line naturally succeeds to male heirs for at least the next two generations from Prince Charles then to Prince William. Some people are pushing for it as a deference to women's rights, but it really has no bearing on the current situation.
More pressing is that many of the Commonwealth realms, particularly Australia, are rather split on the issue of even continuing the monarchy in their countries. Even in the UK there is some sentiment of doing away with it altogether. Part of that is being driven by peoples dislike for Prince Charles, but I would imagine any serious attempt could be thwarted through his abdication in favor of his son Prince William who is immensely popular.
Their surname is Saxe - Coburg - Gotha, so yes, the Duke of Windsor was certainly pro - German. I even think his great-uncle Wilhelm, the former kaiser of Germany was still alive at the time of his abdication.
You're missing a lot of history to hang your hat on the fact that the houses name was Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. German's had essentially ruled Britain and the UK since the early 1700's, with the first being George I.
After the Glorious Revolution Willam and Mary were made dual monarchs. The problem was that they had no children. The line followed Mary as she was British and passed to her sister Anne. Anne also had no issue and though a Protestant was closely related to the former Catholic Stuart line. The Act of Settlement provided that the line of succession would not allow Catholics to assume the throne. The closest non-Catholic in the line was the Electress Sophia of Hannover who could trace her claim back through her mother.
Sophia died before Anne and hence her claim passed to her oldest son, George Louis of Hannover, later Geaorge I. On Anne's death, the crown skipped around 50 more senior Catholic claimants and fell to George and the House of Hannover was born. The British monarch jointly ruled the UK and Hannover until the ascension of Queen Victoria as Hannover did not allow female rulers. Hannover itself was eventually annexed by the Prussians.
The House of Hannover lasted through the reign of Queen Victoria. Her husband was a member of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Hence, all of their descendants bore that name and the first monarch of that house was Edward VII from 1901-1910.
During WW1 George V issued a decree to change the name of the family to Windsor. The main reason for this was that the Germans had built a bomber capable of reaching London and it was known as the "Gotha". Gotha quickly became a household term and the King chose to anglicize the family name to Windsor to avoid any association. At the same time many noble families who had Germanic names also made the switch, including the Duke of Edinburgh's (current Queen's husband) father who restyled their name as Mountbatten.
After the reign of Victoria, virtually every existing monarchy in Europe was related to each other through her and her descendants. However, as history would prove this relationship did not supercede each nations desire to advance it's own agenda.
As for the picture with Hitler, well you need to place that into the context that many statesman and dignitaries of the time paid visits to Nazi Germany and met with Hitler, Goering, et al. You can just as easily find picures of Lord Halifax (a staunch supporter of Britains war effort) on a hunting trip with Goering and meeting with Hitler. In the mid-30's Germany and Nazism in general were seen as a success story and many nations toyed with some of the ideas and policies Hitler had put in place.
You're missing a lot of history to hang your hat on the fact that the houses name was Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. German's had essentially ruled Britain and the UK since the early 1700's, with the first being George I.
After the Glorious Revolution Willam and Mary were made dual monarchs. The problem was that they had no children. The line followed Mary as she was British and passed to her sister Anne. Anne also had no issue and though a Protestant was closely related to the former Catholic Stuart line. The Act of Settlement provided that the line of succession would not allow Catholics to assume the throne. The closest non-Catholic in the line was the Electress Sophia of Hannover who could trace her claim back through her mother.
Sophia died before Anne and hence her claim passed to her oldest son, George Louis of Hannover, later Geaorge I. On Anne's death, the crown skipped around 50 more senior Catholic claimants and fell to George and the House of Hannover was born. The British monarch jointly ruled the UK and Hannover until the ascension of Queen Victoria as Hannover did not allow female rulers. Hannover itself was eventually annexed by the Prussians.
The House of Hannover lasted through the reign of Queen Victoria. Her husband was a member of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Hence, all of their descendants bore that name and the first monarch of that house was Edward VII from 1901-1910.
During WW1 George V issued a decree to change the name of the family to Windsor. The main reason for this was that the Germans had built a bomber capable of reaching London and it was known as the "Gotha". Gotha quickly became a household term and the King chose to anglicize the family name to Windsor to avoid any association. At the same time many noble families who had Germanic names also made the switch, including the Duke of Edinburgh's (current Queen's husband) father who restyled their name as Mountbatten.
After the reign of Victoria, virtually every existing monarchy in Europe was related to each other through her and her descendants. However, as history would prove this relationship did not supercede each nations desire to advance it's own agenda.
As for the picture with Hitler, well you need to place that into the context that many statesman and dignitaries of the time paid visits to Nazi Germany and met with Hitler, Goering, et al. You can just as easily find picures of Lord Halifax (a staunch supporter of Britains war effort) on a hunting trip with Goering and meeting with Hitler. In the mid-30's Germany and Nazism in general were seen as a success story and many nations toyed with some of the ideas and policies Hitler had put in place.
I'm well aware that George I did not speak English and it wasn't until the reign of George III that the Brits considered him 'one of them' and not a foreigner. And yes, I am quite aware that Victoria, who married the German Prince Albert (Saxe-Corburg and Gotha) married her daughters to the various European houses of royalty (namely Denmark, Netherlands, Russia, Germany, and Spain). As for the picture, well that's relative, because many of dignitaries (think Charles "Lucky Lindy" Lindbergh Jr.) were closet sympathizers. The Duke of Windsor was one such "closet" sympathizer. Furthermore, the FBI believed that Wallis Simpson carried on an affair with the German ambassador to Great Britain von Ribbentrop and passed on British state secrets to the Nazis. Documents Show Government's Concern - Was Duke of Windsor A Nazi Sympathizer? - NYTimes.com Britain's would-be Nazi Queen - News - The Independent BBC NEWS | UK | Simpson's 'Nazi past' led to abdication
I'm well aware that George I did not speak English and it wasn't until the reign of George III that the Brits considered him 'one of them' and not a foreigner. And yes, I am quite aware that Victoria, who married the German Prince Albert (Saxe-Corburg and Gotha) married her daughters to the various European houses of royalty (namely Denmark, Netherlands, Russia, Germany, and Spain). As for the picture, well that's relative, because many of dignitaries (think Charles "Lucky Lindy" Lindbergh Jr.) were closet sympathizers. The Duke of Windsor was one such "closet" sympathizer. Furthermore, the FBI believed that Wallis Simpson carried on an affair with the German ambassador to Great Britain von Ribbentrop and passed on British state secrets to the Nazis. Documents Show Government's Concern - Was Duke of Windsor A Nazi Sympathizer? - NYTimes.com Britain's would-be Nazi Queen - News - The Independent BBC NEWS | UK | Simpson's 'Nazi past' led to abdication
Your first post simply implied that since his "house" was German, he was hence a pro-German and Nazi sympathizer. That's why you got the history lesson in how that came to pass.
As for the rest of the post, it was long suspected that he was a sympathizer and no one ever argued that. If you read through the thread that fact was never challenged by anyone. What was challenged was the idea that as King he could have had any real influence on altering the course of the war or forcing Britain into an alliance with the Nazi's.
As for thinking the abdication was tied to Simpson being a Nazi sympathizer, I think that is a bit of a stretch. 1936 was a "coming out" year for the Nazi's with the hosting of the Summer Olympics and their only real actions that year was the remiliterization of the Rhineland, which was met with a collective yawn across Europe and strong pro-German sentiments in Britain, where it was compared to "the British occupying Portsmouth."
If anything Edward's and Simpson's more open flaunting with the Nazi's did not begin until after the abdication. Perhaps one could make for the case that what was sympathy turned into support when they were forced to give up the throne over their relationship.
History channel had a documentary on this. He regularly leaked classified info to his German friends who quickly reported this to Hitler. While not exactly a Nazi supporter, he became a liability to his country so Churchill had him sent to the Carribian to be a governor to get him as far away from England and Germany as possible. Years after the truth of the Nazis was discovered he still felt his position was right regarding Germany. Lindbergh was willing to serve to fight Japan but he had strong loyalties to Germany via his secret families.
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Hey, don't assume I've missed a lot of history
