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Old 05-29-2012, 09:27 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,702,592 times
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Folks already corrected the missing fourth Iowa, which was New Jersey (the ship that earned more battle stars then the other three combined and is the most decorated ship in the Navy second only to Enterprise). As far as keeping them 'ready', as much as I like the old battlewagons, I don't see what role they could possibly play on a modern battlefield.

The accuracy of the gunnery seemed to reach a peek during Korea where the Iowa's were considered to be excellent performers. In Vietnam, only New Jersey fired her guns and the performance was decent, but not exactly stellar. In the Lebanon Conflict the New Jersey fired her guns in support of the Marines in Beirut, but the gunnery was poor at best and some sources such as Colin Powell actually paint the decision to use the highly inaccurate (up to 10,000 yards off target) gunnery from the ship as causing strong shifts in relations do to the indiscriminate shelling. During the Gulf War the Missouri fired the last 16" BB rounds in combat. She dropped something like 760 rounds on various targets along the coast in preparation, but with little actual success other than drawing attention to herself and making for great news footage.

This was ultimately attributed to re-mixed powder in the case of New Jersey, but overall, the gunnery was ultimately dependent on "old school" tactics from the 40's as any of the electronic fire control systems tried simply wouldn't work with the big guns. The Navy actually brought back old gunnery experts that served on the ships to train the new crews. Basically, the gunnery was so good in Korea, because they had the most experienced guys doing it. From then on, the "old school" gunnery skills were simply lost making the big guns next to useless at anything but "shock and awe".

As for why they are requiring them to maintain certain readiness, my guess is that given the amount of money invested in them in the 80's, they are probably the only major ships we have that are close to being able to be made combat ready again.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,874 posts, read 26,521,399 times
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These were amazing ships, and graceful. I always thought it would be interesting to rebuild them with nuke plants (the powerplants from a Nimitz class carrier would be nice!) and upgrade the fire control of the main guns to current technology. Add a bunch of vertical launch tubes in the space freed up by getting rid of the funnels. 12-18 inches of steel offer a lot more protection from anti-ship missles than the aluminum superstructures found on some current surface ships.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
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I think turning all the Iowa class battleships into floating museums is the best use for a battleship possible in the 21st century. Even by WW2 they were just really expensive symbols of national might and were practically useless otherwise.

I'll make a special trip to LA to see the USS Iowa when it opens though... that will be too awesome!!
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,016 posts, read 20,912,457 times
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Default Update for May 31, 2012

As you know if you are following the news on this, the Iowa has arrived in Los Angeles waters and is anchored offshore while divers scrape the hull prior to her entry into the harbor. This morning's Los Angeles Times still gives the date of the opening to the public as July 7, but those things have a tendency to be postponed. (The departure from San Francisco was delayed several days by weather).
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:13 PM
 
827 posts, read 1,673,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
These were amazing ships, and graceful. I always thought it would be interesting to rebuild them with nuke plants (the powerplants from a Nimitz class carrier would be nice!) and upgrade the fire control of the main guns to current technology. Add a bunch of vertical launch tubes in the space freed up by getting rid of the funnels. 12-18 inches of steel offer a lot more protection from anti-ship missles than the aluminum superstructures found on some current surface ships.
I don't know if they'll keep the tubes for the Tomahawks on it or not. IIRC they want to put it back to 1940's tech as a showpiece BUT the idea was so they could reuse these old ships in case of an EMP burst that MAY shut doen the rest of the fleet [or a lot of it anyways].

I know someone will point out that these new ships are "EMP proof" BUTG you never really know for sure.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:56 AM
 
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,667,720 times
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So approximately how much will one ticket cost to tour this ship?
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:20 PM
 
Location: the Beaver State
6,464 posts, read 13,443,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post

The accuracy of the gunnery seemed to reach a peek during Korea where the Iowa's were considered to be excellent performers. In Vietnam, only New Jersey fired her guns and the performance was decent, but not exactly stellar. In the Lebanon Conflict the New Jersey fired her guns in support of the Marines in Beirut, but the gunnery was poor at best and some sources such as Colin Powell actually paint the decision to use the highly inaccurate (up to 10,000 yards off target) gunnery from the ship as causing strong shifts in relations do to the indiscriminate shelling.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of the reason that a lot of modern ships are armed with missiles? Am I also mis-remembering that both the Missouri and the New Jersey had turrets removed and replaced with missile systems?
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:04 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,702,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamellr View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of the reason that a lot of modern ships are armed with missiles? Am I also mis-remembering that both the Missouri and the New Jersey had turrets removed and replaced with missile systems?
The reason modern ships are armed with missiles is do to accuracy and range. The 16" guns on the Iowa's can only reach a hair over 23 miles. By contrast a Tomahawk cruise missile has a range of 1,000-1,700 miles depending on which version we are talking about. On top of the range, accuracy is also greater with the missiles. The gunners on New Jersey were off by up to 10,000 yards, a Tomahawk is reportedly accurate to within 30 feet. At a time when accuracy and minimizing collateral damage is important and ground forces can rapidly move to areas out of gun range, missiles and aircraft are far better weapons.

As for the turrets being removed, during the overhaul of the ships in the mid-1980's, several of the 5" secondary batteries were removed to make room for the Tomahawk and Harpoon launchers. They also removed most of the AA armament replacing them with newer systems like Stinger launchers and CIWS. There was a proposal to actually remove the rear turret altogether and replace it with a system for launching and recovering Harrier jets. There were alternatives also proposed for a cantered launch deck and recovery system to launch Hornets and also one for an expanded helicopter capacity and additional missile launchers. Those plans were all scrapped over cost concerns.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:57 PM
 
Location: USA
7,474 posts, read 7,036,445 times
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I've seen the New Jersey in her final resting place as a floating museum. She's an impressive sight and was a magnificent battleship. A strong argument could be made that the Iowa class were the greatest battleships ever built when one considers their overall design and capabilties.

However, as others have stated, their time is long past. Even in WW2, I don't think a single one of them ever exchanged shots with another enemy battleship, and aircraft basically dominated that war since early on - the attack on Pearl Harbor made that staggeringly clear.

So, let the Iowa class rest in peace as monuments to a different and changing era in naval warfare.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:59 AM
 
Location: the Beaver State
6,464 posts, read 13,443,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
I've seen the New Jersey in her final resting place as a floating museum. She's an impressive sight and was a magnificent battleship. A strong argument could be made that the Iowa class were the greatest battleships ever built when one considers their overall design and capabilties.
I have been lucky enough in the past year to be on the USS Missouri, USS Alabama (where you can actually get inside one of the turrets,) the USS Hornet just a few weeks ago, and the USS Constellation.

Not to mention the Queen Mary, but she's not really in the same class as the rest of those.

The USS Ranger is scheduled be stationed as a Museum Ship nearby within a couple of years.

As you can tell, I too highly support these gorgeous ships to be made into museums.
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