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Old 06-04-2012, 10:26 AM
 
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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"Posters Who Introduce Topics and Demand That Others Provide All the Topic Material While Making No Contribution Themselves"

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Old 06-04-2012, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
"Posters Who Introduce Topics and Demand That Others Provide All the Topic Material While Making No Contribution Themselves"

Discuss.
Oh, I was in a hurry earlier. So I'll get ball rolling.

Had it not been for that fifteen minutes where the Japanese carriers had their pants down, what would have been the outcome, both short-term and long?

There? Does that help? Personally, I think I contributed to the forum by actually being the first to notice the anniversary.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:35 PM
 
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Wow 70 years ! They say it was the turning point in the Pacific war. The US went on the ofensive after that. We had courage and luck and won a great victory sinking 4 Japanese carriers and lost one the Yorktown. Was it luck or not that we caught their carries with bombs and fuel all over the decks as they say they were reaming the planes with torpedoes and removing the bombs they were going to use on Midway again. What ever it was the brave US pilots did the job and the poor men from Torpedo squadren 8 got slaughter going in with no fighter cover. I believe ony one man George Gay was the only surviver of Torpedo squadren 8. Ron
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: A blue island in the Piedmont
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Originally Posted by 383man View Post
What ever it was the brave US pilots did the job and the poor men from Torpedo squadren 8 got slaughter going in with no fighter cover. I believe ony one man George Gay was the only surviver of Torpedo squadren 8. Ron
And Mcluskey. C. Wade McClusky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimitz
McClusky's decision to continue the search for the enemy and his judgment as to where the enemy might be found, "decided the fate of our carrier task force and our forces at Midway..."
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Old 06-04-2012, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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The Japanese battle plan left itself open to exploitation if the American carriers were not at Pearl Harbor, but rather were waiting in ambush. The Japanese assumption was that an attack on Midway itself would lure the US carriers out to oppose the invasion. They assumed that they would have time to deal with Midway, recover their aircraft and rearm them, and be ready when the US fleet arrived.

The American carriers were there making that ambush because of the skill and intelligence of our code breakers. The American air squadrons were over the Japanese fleet in a timely manner because of the decision by Spruance to launch at maximun range. One squadron of US dive bombers was able to find the Japanese fleet by following the wake of a destroyer moving at flank speed. That destroyer was only out there trying to rejoin Nagumo's fleet because a courageous attack by an American submarine had lured it away in pursuit. The Japanese aircover exhausted itself coping with the suicidal bravery of the American torpedo pilots and crews. The US dive bombers hit their targets because of the skill of their pilots.

So, while the US did have some breaks go their way, I am uncomfortable with the frequency in which one sees luck mentioned as a major factor in the US victory. The US out thought and out fought their opponents on every level, supreme command, prebattle intelligence, tactical command and tactical execution.

It was Napoleon or Branch Rickey or someone who said "Luck is the residue of design." If the American side enjoyed good fortune in the Midway battle, it was only because they had done so much to put themselves into a position to expoit whatever fortune came their way.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:06 PM
 
Location: USA
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We basically had their number from early on, although they still could have caused more damage had things worked out differently... if I recall, a scout plane from their cruiser Tone launched late, and that was the one that found our fleet... so, that could have gone differently based purely on luck.

Blowing away 4 of their 6 main fleet carriers - and the experienced pilots on them - basically broke the back of the Japanese Imperial Navy. Exchanging that for only 1 fleet carrier lost on our side was a huge win. The situation could have been worse, but I think the Imperial Navy was in deep trouble the moment they committed to this attack because of the code breakers.

I recall one "what if" question asked years ago that wondered what would have happened if the Japanese had achieved a smashing victory at Midway, such as by reversing the losses in carriers and pilots? Interestingly, some have theorized that it only would have extended the end of the war by a year or so since Japan's industrial output was so small compared to that of the US's. Once Germany was out of the way, we could have freely built fleets of ships and eventually overwhelmed the Japanese with raw numbers on top of the skill of our men. It does make you wonder... perhaps Yamamoto was right about waking sleeping dragons.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
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Many consider Midway one of the most important battles of the 20th century, certainly in the top ten. It basically took the Japanese out of the war offensively, and started us on our way across the Pacific. Midway has been one of the most scrutinized battles in our history, with every minute detail examined from start to finish by historians.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
if I recall, a scout plane from their cruiser Tone launched late, and that was the one that found our fleet... so, that could have gone differently based purely on luck.

.
The failure to keep all their scouting aircraft in proper working order wasn't bad luck for the Japanese, it was neglect. And I wonder why it didn't seem to occur to Nagumo, who commanded a fleet featuring hundreds of aircraft, that he just might have been able to spare a carrier launched plane to fill in for the faulty Tone scout. They had plenty of Val divebombers aboard, each with an 800 mile range.

Not pure luck.
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
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There are three book-length treatments of the Battle of Midway that I am aware of, two which have been around for a while and one newer one. The old standbys are "Incredible Victory" by Walter Lord and "Miracle at Midway" by Gordon Prange. The newer work is "Shattered Sword" by Jonathan A. Parshall and Anthony P. Tally (2005).
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