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Old 09-18-2012, 09:44 PM
 
560 posts, read 581,395 times
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Interesting thread.

I was watching the diary of Anne Frank last night, a movie on a PBS channel last night and it really made me realize how things in history quickly changed. After the movie, I went to this website that was dedicated to Anne Frank in which there were a lot of photographs of her in her youth. A lot of these photographs showed this young girl with family and friends, very middle class environment. At the beach, celebrating birthdays with a lot of friends, posing with friends in a park setting, in a classroom with classmates and a her teacher, just having the time of her life, not a care in the world. Some of the things we as Americans take for granted. Just a couple years later, by eyewitness accounts, this young girl, with her family, were at a concentration camp, being described as bald, emaciated, and shivering and eventually dying at the age of 15 of typhus. So sad.

In general we as Americans have enjoyed this type of lifestyle for years, and can imagine if it suddenly came crumbling down, god forbid. Certainly that was a totally different era and circumstances, with Nazi Germany creating havoc, but it makes you think, should something like that were to happen. Scary.
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:16 PM
 
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I'd give it no more than 30 years.
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,254,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyCity View Post
Interesting thread.

I was watching the diary of Anne Frank last night, a movie on a PBS channel last night and it really made me realize how things in history quickly changed. After the movie, I went to this website that was dedicated to Anne Frank in which there were a lot of photographs of her in her youth. A lot of these photographs showed this young girl with family and friends, very middle class environment. At the beach, celebrating birthdays with a lot of friends, posing with friends in a park setting, in a classroom with classmates and a her teacher, just having the time of her life, not a care in the world. Some of the things we as Americans take for granted. Just a couple years later, by eyewitness accounts, this young girl, with her family, were at a concentration camp, being described as bald, emaciated, and shivering and eventually dying at the age of 15 of typhus. So sad.

In general we as Americans have enjoyed this type of lifestyle for years, and can imagine if it suddenly came crumbling down, god forbid. Certainly that was a totally different era and circumstances, with Nazi Germany creating havoc, but it makes you think, should something like that were to happen. Scary.
Reality is 'something' could always happen. Even if its not political or social. We tend to believe things will always go on as they have, but that is a falicy. Until someday happens.

The new NBC show Revolution suggests the world fifteen years after all power has shut down, and what the pilot shows is a medieveal world. The discussion about the show seems to run technical (hows and why's of an emp) to social, but a few don't see why they haven't just started rebuilding it... Not so easy.

The thing is, our electric grid is running on a wish and a prayer. Some parts are a hundred years old. Some are new. The ability to manufacture the parts if it crumpled would go with it, and if it wasn't a world wide loss, we would be indebted entirely to other nations for our infrastructue. There is a price to everything.

What most people conviently ignore is there is so much which could compromise the day to day working of our society. Most of it will happen when the time comes, and most of the time we don't know when that is. But so long as the power is still on, the bridge hasn't fallen, the road is still passable, we shut out the way we're letting what holds us together fall apart.

One of the reasons I love post apoc fiction is it explores the world without the toys, and more specifically the way people react. But for some it is 'scary'. The truth is that the fabric of our physical socieity is falling apart, and we choose not to notice and no matter how scary it is, that will come back to knock us on our backsides some day. Then it may be easy to decide what we want to restore, if we can, since when its gone the priorities will be a lot simplier.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,810,657 times
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We're a lot like the Vikings, and Ragnarok is just around the corner...

...But the USA will certainly be remembered for hundreds, if not thousands of years into the future just like Rome or Ancient Egypt, so I guess we're as eternal as a human culture can be.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:26 AM
 
560 posts, read 581,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47 View Post
Reality is 'something' could always happen. Even if its not political or social. We tend to believe things will always go on as they have, but that is a falicy. Until someday happens.

The new NBC show Revolution suggests the world fifteen years after all power has shut down, and what the pilot shows is a medieveal world. The discussion about the show seems to run technical (hows and why's of an emp) to social, but a few don't see why they haven't just started rebuilding it... Not so easy.

The thing is, our electric grid is running on a wish and a prayer. Some parts are a hundred years old. Some are new. The ability to manufacture the parts if it crumpled would go with it, and if it wasn't a world wide loss, we would be indebted entirely to other nations for our infrastructue. There is a price to everything.

What most people conviently ignore is there is so much which could compromise the day to day working of our society. Most of it will happen when the time comes, and most of the time we don't know when that is. But so long as the power is still on, the bridge hasn't fallen, the road is still passable, we shut out the way we're letting what holds us together fall apart.

One of the reasons I love post apoc fiction is it explores the world without the toys, and more specifically the way people react. But for some it is 'scary'. The truth is that the fabric of our physical socieity is falling apart, and we choose not to notice and no matter how scary it is, that will come back to knock us on our backsides some day. Then it may be easy to decide what we want to restore, if we can, since when its gone the priorities will be a lot simplier.

The challenges we face as a nation are in abundance in a variety of sectors especially infrastructure which is basically the backbone as how we function in society. We are dependent on it, as is the economy. In my opinion we have the technology, it just a matter of making it a priority, despite the obstacles such as money and time. Neglected, it will be a lot more expensive and/or catastrophic in the future. So its vital that we have the type of leadership who will make the commitment and will take the necessary action now rather than later. No doubt, not an easy task and very challenging.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:13 AM
 
Location: London
1,068 posts, read 2,021,783 times
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I think the US will cling to its empire in a global sense but that its population will see less benefits of their domination as the continued slavery to debt and relentless tide of globalisation continues to take its toll.

Shanghai may look spectacular but despite impressive growth statistics China is a power that needs the US market just as it needs to suppress the majority of its population in order to keep itself in a tenable position to out-maneuver other nations around the globe.

I think the future challenges for nations will come from within when the financial realisation of what has happened to global resources and capital sinks in and the levels of socialised debts begin to increasingly enslave us to propping up a rigged and unstable financial system.

All the world's major powers will have a challenge to convince ther population's that the burden to repay toxic debt is on their shoulders whilst a cosseted plutocracy continue to live life in a detached bubble.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:49 PM
 
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Our retirees' breakfast group this morning was speculating that if the USA continues going into debt to China as it has, China before many years may demand to take Hawaii and Alaska or other states from us as payment for our enormous debts.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:08 PM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,682,136 times
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Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
Our retirees' breakfast group this morning was speculating that if the USA continues going into debt to China as it has, China before many years may demand to take Hawaii and Alaska or other states from us as payment for our enormous debts.
You guy's might find this report interesting, it puts the entire Chinese debt issue into perspective. It's from the Congressional Research Service, so not some slanted source trying to use the situation for political gain. It presents both sides of the issue from the US persepctive, gives the real numbers on the situation and the most likely scenarios for a change in the current status quo:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34314.pdf

Imagine two guys standing in a room and they are both holding a grenade between them. The pin is pulled on the grenade and the fuse trigger is really heavy so they need each other to hold it in and keep it from exploding. Either one can let go, but that would mean both of them would get blown up. Each of them spends time debating over which one has a better chance of surviving the blast. Right now the bigger guy (the US) has a much better chance of surviving the blast and he is holding the pin and can put it back into the grenade whenever he decides he wants to.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
Our retirees' breakfast group this morning was speculating that if the USA continues going into debt to China as it has, China before many years may demand to take Hawaii and Alaska or other states from us as payment for our enormous debts.
Have there been any recent precedents of a nation taking or accepting territory as default payment for any kinds of economic debts?
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,913,300 times
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I wouldn't count on it being here much longer. 10-20 years tops. Debt is massive and growing, culturally it is going downhill incredibly fast. Yes the cities will be here, and the state governments will probably survive, but its most likely we will end up with a dictatorship, and the constitution will not function. It will not be the United States of free people. IT will be a people who live under a king of sorts. We're already close to it. Congress hasn't passed a budget in 3 or 4 years, can't stop the government from what its doing, the Obama administration does whatever it wants. Laws are regulating what people eat, even the size of the Cokes they can buy.

Now if your wondering if it will continue as a super power, with an empire, my guess is that world wide influence will definitely be gone in 20 years, probably under domination of the Chinese.
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