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Old 02-10-2013, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,928,948 times
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How were national borders established?

Here is the border in Germany (white edge lines) looking into Switzerland (yellow dashes).

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Switz...,347.1,,0,23.3

There is nothing on the ground to naturally make a demarcation, and the border doesn't follow any linearity.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Switz...rland&t=m&z=15

Here's another place, in uncut forest on either side of the border. Why the jog, right there?

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Switz...rland&t=h&z=18

Yet, this border has stood for centuries, through world wars. How did it get exactly there in the first place?
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:08 PM
 
Location: SW MO
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Probably other wars and some natural topographical changes.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
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I could be looking at them wrong, but if you switch to a "terrain" view on the maps, it would seem that for the most part, once it gets off the Rhine, the border follows ridge tops and low lands where they can.

Where they are odd, out of place changes, I don't know. Maybe there are long standing mineral rights claims in the area?
Pretty complicated border though. Glad ours is pretty much 3600 miles of straight lines lol. Where ours get all curvy, say at the Maine/Quebec border it follows a creek. When the creek comes to its source, it again seems to follow ridge tops between Maine and New Brunswick until it gets to the St. John river, and follows that for a while. Then for some reason takes a straight line south, cross country before meeting up with another creek, that leads to Grande Lake, which flows into Spednic Lake, which I think then follows the St. Croix river out to the Atlantic.





Huh........I don't think I answered your question.

...uummmmmmm.....they went back to exactly how they were before the great stalemate?
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:17 PM
 
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Annexation, wars, new states created out of
landmass, ect.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
How were national borders established?
In the case of Germany you would have to go back into antiquity in order to map out former tribal boundaries that were over time expanded or contracted into neighboring tribes, feudal lands, and principalities before even beginning to understand the formations of moder Germany.

This is a fun little animation to demonstrate the point.


Political Borders of Germany from 1789 to 2005 - YouTube
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:04 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
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A lot of reasons for these little zig-zags:
  1. When the surveyors came by, they might have asked the property owners which nation they would like to be a part of. Or they might have arbitrarily divided the property owners between countries while allowing the property owners to keep their jagged property lines.
  2. Terrain. In the first example you posted, it looks like Germany got possession of the little valley up to the river. This would have allowed them access to the river.
  3. During a war, one nation's army may have been in possession of an area when the armistice was decided, do the country of that army gained possession.
etc.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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There was the William Penn family way of establishing borders. In 1737, a group of investors led by the sons of William Penn negotiated a purchase of land from the Lenape (or Delaware) tribe of Pennsylvania. Called "The Walking Purchase", it specified that the borders began at the junction of the Delaware and Lehigh Rivers (modern Easton, Pennsylvania) and would extend as far west "as a man could walk in a day and a half."

Clandestinely, the Penns arranged for a rough road to be hacked through the forests in advance to speed their "walker" along. They then hired the three fastest runners that could be found and one of them managed to cover 70 miles. From there a perpendicular line was drawn to the North and all the land inside this box, some 1.2 million acres, was "sold."

The Delawares were not powerful enough to do anything about this swindle, so they appealed to the Iroquois for help. They were told to move somewhere else and quit making foolish treaties with the white eyes.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:36 PM
 
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See Enclave and exclave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The African continent is really messed up. Many of its borders were drawn up by European powers, at the Berlin Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia with no input from the African natives themselves. The resulting African countries often split tribal / ethnic groups right in two.

Iraq should never have the borders it does - there should be an ethnic Kurdish nation encompassing north Iraq and southeast Turkey.

The south (rebellious) end of Thailand is Moslem, and definitely should be part of Malaysia.

Eastern Ethiopia should be part of Somalia.

Easternmost India (Assam area) should be a different country altogether.

Northeast Italy used to part of Austria, and many people there want to rejoin Austria.

Then there is this odd town http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estcourt_Station,_Maine and this other very odd town http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Angle,_Minnesota

Thousands of Indians and Pakistanis have been killed in the ongoing border dispute over Kashmir province. In all fairness, Kashmir province ought to be divided between the two countries - since one distinct part of it is Moslem, and the other distinct part of it has a Hindu population.

Another curious thing is that, as the winding, twisting Mississippi River has straightened out in numerous places due to storms, many rural areas have found themselves suddenly part of another state, and isolated / landlocked from the rest of their former state. You can see this by examining a map of Missouri, Arkansas, or west Tennessee. Something ought to be done to adjust these areas to reflect current reality, so they're no longer cut-off.

Last edited by slowlane3; 02-11-2013 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:22 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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And finally, this very odd little town, which has enclaves inside exclaves:

Baarle-Nassau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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