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I believe that the Viking chieftain and king Ragnar Lodbrok (c.790-845 AD) existed, although probably not the way he's depicted in the legends- dying in a pit full of snakes, killing a dragon and marrying Thora Town-Hart. There is actually at least one record of "Reginherus" (Latinised "Ragnar" (not Lodbrok) in 845 in a Frankish annal where he is described as attacking Paris with a large fleet of ships, and being bought off by King Charles the Bald with 70 000 pieces of gold, IIRC. So, what that says is that a guy called Ragnar existed, and that he attacked Paris. He may or may not actually have had the nickname "Hairy-Breeches." (What a nickname, can YOU imagine being called Hairy Breeches?)
Hypothetically, assuming that I'm trying to prove to a friend that R.L. (or King Arthur, or Sigurd) existed, how would I prove that a person existed?
Hypothetically, assuming that I'm trying to prove to a friend that R.L. (or King Arthur, or Sigurd) existed, how would I prove that a person existed?
If you are Erich von Daniken then you root around in the preserves of antiquity and if you find a stick shaped piece of rusted metal, well that was King Arthur's scepter or maybe Merlin's wand. This shard of rusty metal was the face plate from Lancelot's helmet. Any chunk of old wood with a rounded edge, obviously from the Round Table....like that.
If you are instead a normal historian, you have to hope that something new and persuasive turns up since what is available may only be used to speculate that there probably was someone upon whom the Arthur stories were based, but not even that is certain.
You need to document the existence of someone with that name via official records, or inscriptions, or some other record. Since any such documentation has already been, or not been, made, you would have to find it, probably in an old library, possibly mis-identified. I suppose, you might also search old epics, if they covered the time period you mention. (Sorry I know so little about old Norse legends and history.)
I do wonder, if this ancient person was a part of literate society, or if they were basically illiterate, or possibly using runes? And may I ask, what is he to you?
If you are Erich von Daniken then you root around in the preserves of antiquity and if you find a stick shaped piece of rusted metal, well that was King Arthur's scepter or maybe Merlin's wand. This shard of rusty metal was the face plate from Lancelot's helmet. Any chunk of old wood with a rounded edge, obviously from the Round Table....like that.
If you are instead a normal historian, you have to hope that something new and persuasive turns up since what is available may only be used to speculate that there probably was someone upon whom the Arthur stories were based, but not even that is certain.
I enjoyed your dig against von Daniken. Haven't heard his name in awhile.
You need to document the existence of someone with that name via official records, or inscriptions, or some other record. Since any such documentation has already been, or not been, made, you would have to find it, probably in an old library, possibly mis-identified. I suppose, you might also search old epics, if they covered the time period you mention. (Sorry I know so little about old Norse legends and history.)
I do wonder, if this ancient person was a part of literate society, or if they were basically illiterate, or possibly using runes? And may I ask, what is he to you?
He's a protagonist in a story I'm writing; a YA sci-fi novel based on a saga about him. There are two sagas; The Tale Of Ragnar Lodbrok and The Tale Of Ragnar's Sons. The first one is the one my story is based on. Or maybe it's better to say that a person named Ragnar Lodbrok, who performs heroic deeds associated with the legendary Ragnar, is a protagonist in my novel.
The heroine is his second wife Aslaug, who legend says married him after she answered a riddle along these lines:
Come neither fed, nor unfed;
neither clothed nor unclothed;
Neither alone nor accompanied.
IIRC a lot of Icelanders claim him as an ancestor. The early Danish royal house said they were descended from him. I'm not ethnically Icelandic or European of any kind at all, so even if I wanted to claim descent from Ragnar Lodbrok, I wouldn't be able to, but I've got a deep interest in Norse mythology and legend through Tolkien. I've always been into mythology and legend.
Legendary heroes are legendary for a good reason. The story teller can ascribe all manner of heroic deeds to them without the annoyance of fact. We know Gaius Julius Caesar was real so we cannot make him a magician. We do not know if Merlin was real so we can make him anything needed to tell the story.
Legendary heroes are legendary for a good reason. The story teller can ascribe all manner of heroic deeds to them without the annoyance of fact. We know Gaius Julius Caesar was real so we cannot make him a magician. We do not know if Merlin was real so we can make him anything needed to tell the story.
Actually, there was a real Merlin IIRC. He was known as Myrddin Wyllt and lived in the 6th century.
Actually, there was a real Merlin IIRC. He was known as Myrddin Wyllt and lived in the 6th century.
Myrddin Wyllt is a Welsh legendary character found in early poems and thought to have been based on Lailoke, who may or may not have been a real character in the 6th Century.
Lailoke inspired the legends of Lailoke which inspired the legends of Myrddin Wyllt which inspired the legend of Merlin.
Skip 800 years. What about Robin Hood? Chaucer who lived around the same time as Robin supposedly did is real and his life is very well documented.
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