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Old 11-07-2013, 10:18 AM
 
31,371 posts, read 33,536,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I think it's important to remember that in this interview, like in almost all of the ones conducted post-war, Goering was playing to his audience. I find it very interesting to hear what he has to say, but I wouldn't take any of it as gospel. There was also a good deal of time where Goering was an outsider among Hitler's inner-circle and while he may be speaking to what he thought was correct or what his interpretation was, his words/views aren't necessarily those of Hitler and the other senior leaders.
Well, that is an important caveat because there is no doubt that Goring was a self-serving egotist of the first order but even so even when taking a grain of salt we can find kernels of truth and avenues that should be explored because the narrative that Hitler "simply ignored, was ignorant of, or grossly underestimated the war making power of the U.S. just seems too simplistic for my taste. Goring's explanation rings far truer to my ears than the latter.

* So what is the correct style for spelling Goering/Goring's name. I know that the umlaut belongs over the o and that using the letter e performs that task for the purpose of pronunciation, is it necessary in written form?

Where are the grammar fascist when you need them?
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Well, that is an important caveat because there is no doubt that Goring was a self-serving egotist of the first order but even so even when taking a grain of salt we can find kernels of truth and avenues that should be explored because the narrative that Hitler "simply ignored, was ignorant of, or grossly underestimated the war making power of the U.S. just seems too simplistic for my taste. Goring's explanation rings far truer to my ears than the latter.

* So what is the correct style for spelling Goering/Goring's name. I know that the umlaut belongs over the o and that using the letter e performs that task for the purpose of pronunciation, is it necessary in written form?

Where are the grammar fascist when you need them?
Well, did Goering's explanation really challenge the "underestimated" argument? His explanation was that they thought it would take the US far longer than it did to create a potent military force to challenge Germany. He basically echoed the argument of the rest of the general staff that the US simply couldn't be a threat in time to decide the course of the Eastern Front. They underestimated US ability in terms of how long it would take the US to build the necessary naval assets to move and supply sufficient forces for an invasion. They thought it would be impossible before 1946. By late 1942 the US was landing in Africa. In mid 1943 they were in Sicily and Italy. In mid 1944 they were landing in Normandy. So, the underestimation argument isn't wrong.

There is also a difference between "Hitler" and the "general staff". As argued in the other thread, Hitler's views changed rapidly over the course of the 1930's and under the influence of his non-military advisers. I would stand by the argument that Hitler felt that America was impotent when it came to waging war and lacked the resolve to become a major threat. The military and Goering's view was more inline with what Hitler penned in the late 1920's.

As for the spelling, being a student of German, the correct English spelling is Goering with the "e" as that leaves you with a phonetic pronunciation closest to the actual German, "Gehr-ing". Without the "e" you are left with an incorrect English pronunciation of "Gore-ing"....grammar HEIL!
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:09 PM
 
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Goring had a near genius IQ like many nazi leaders
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Well, did Goering's explanation really challenge the "underestimated" argument? His explanation was that they thought it would take the US far longer than it did to create a potent military force to challenge Germany.
There is a significant difference between underestimating the time that it would take and underestimating that it could be done at all which seems to be the tenor of the arguments put forth on the thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Novadhd5150 View Post
I have always thought he concerned Americans lazy and undisciplined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
"What is America but beauty queens, millionaires, stupid records and Hollywood?"

~ Adolf Hitler, 1940
Quote:
Originally Posted by P47P47 View Post
I believe it was Goering (commander of the Luftwaffe) that said that Americans could make razor blades and washing machines, but they couldn't make aircraft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110 View Post
Yep, it's too bad of him that he forgot about all of our extremely powerful guns, weapons, tanks, planes, ships, et cetera.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
There is a significant difference between underestimating the time that it would take and underestimating that it could be done at all which seems to be the tenor of the arguments put forth on the thread.
Well, the title of that thread (just defending my own response) was "Did Hitler underestimate..." No one asked what Goering thought, though someone chose to offer something he apparently may have said.

I guess the point here would be that there was nothing approaching universal agreement among Nazi leaders on these topics. In general Hitler got his way and his viewpoint is the one most studied. When it came to America, Hitler's opinion was low following the impacts of the Great Depression. He felt that America was impotent and weak and that they would not be a threat. This view was not necessarily held by the rest of the Nazi leadership, especially the military. In their view it was more a matter of practicality in how quickly America could re-arm and sail across the Atlantic. They underestimated that ability. In the interview Goering reiterates and reinforces the militaries general view. He doesn't really speak to Hitler's personal position/belief.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobseeker2013 View Post
Goring had a near genius IQ like many nazi leaders
I see your true colors are starting to show
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
When it came to America, Hitler's opinion was low following the impacts of the Great Depression. He felt that America was impotent and weak and that they would not be a threat.
I haven't read Klaus P. Fischer's "Hitler and America" University of Pennsylvania Press, but from the Fischer's introduction it appears that Goring's interview closely follows Fischer's premise. In fact I stumbled across the Goring interview while looking for more information on Fisher's premise.

Table of Contents: Hitler and America
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
I see your true colors are starting to show
Well, it is a fact and one often remarked on by Allied officials who interviewed the remaining Nazi leaders after the war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I haven't read Klaus P. Fischer's "Hitler and America" University of Pennsylvania Press, but from the Fischer's introduction it appears that Goring's interview closely follows Fischer's premise. In fact I stumbled across the Goring interview while looking for more information on Fisher's premise.

Table of Contents: Hitler and America
I'm going to have to read Fischer's book. The excerpt was interesting and he seems like he wants to introduce a new perspective on what Hitler thought of the US. Thanks for the link, I added it to my book list.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:
When it came to America, Hitler's opinion was low following the impacts of the Great Depression. He felt that America was impotent and weak and that they would not be a threat. This view was not necessarily held by the rest of the Nazi leadership, especially the military. In their view it was more a matter of practicality in how quickly America could re-arm and sail across the Atlantic. They underestimated that ability. In the interview Goering reiterates and reinforces the militaries general view. He doesn't really speak to Hitler's personal position/belief.
That's right. But I've read that Goring thought that even if the US did come in they couldn't/wouldn't have an effect. If that was true it just showed how off the mark he was and not so intelligent in his judgments. And we can see that in his command of the Battle of Britain. From the looks of it he was a 'dangerous' fellow when it came to making some big decisions for Germany'd Reich.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
Well, it is a fact and one often remarked on by Allied officials who interviewed the remaining Nazi leaders after the war.
What makes this forum worth reading is the analysis or interpretation that goes with those facts. The poster I responded to did not offer any interpretation, and I've found over time that those who do that often do so because their interpretation would be rather controversial and easily countered.

Feel free to disagree but I find absolutely no value to only stating "Nazi officials generally had a very high IQ". What's the point? Does that imply extermination of the Jews was a smart policy? Does that imply IQ does not mean anything at all? Or something else?
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