Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 925,387 times
Reputation: 416

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoPro View Post
On my Dad's side, our family's first immigrant to American came over from Heidelberg in 1754. His son fought in the American Revolution, so our Germanic side of the family long since lost any "loyalty" to the old country.

There was a wave of German immigrant settlers to Central Texas from Solms-Braunfels in the 1840s. A Texas publication ran an interesting article last summer about their German dialects dying out in this state:

Auf Wiedersehen to a Dialect | Texas Monthly

But there were a heck of a lot of German immigrants later in the century. Note the name of the capital of North Dakota.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 30,931,772 times
Reputation: 16643
Where I was from in Grand Rapids, my grandpa told me a lot of the schools used to be taught in both English and German up until the war.. then all of that changed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 08:55 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,169 posts, read 13,249,970 times
Reputation: 10141
Default did U.S. gov.betray German Americans in ww1

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickerman View Post
This always puzzled me. German Americans were the biggest ethnic group in the country and they contributed so much to American civilization in education, engineering, culture, etc. It has been said that German Americans were the backbone of the country. And German Americans had the nicest neighborhoods in the big cities with real nice architecture. But WW1 was devastating to the German American communities all across the country. The war broke up their neighborhoods and they never recovered. Naturally the German Americans were against going to war against Germany. But it seemed the government ignored the interests of the biggest ethnic group. So I wonder why the government didn't consider the what the German Americans wanted. It is like they didn't matter or something.
If anyone betrayed the German American community, it was not the US government but the German government. When the Germans resumed unrestricted submarine warfare early in 1917, they knew that the Americans and other countries might declare war on them but they didn't care. They thought they could force the British out of the war faster then the Americans could build up their army.

From wikipedia: U-boat Campaign (World War I) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.....1916 study by Dr. Richard Fuss, who had postulated that if merchant shipping was sunk at such a rate, Britain would run out of shipping and be forced to sue for peace within 6 months, well before the Americans could act. Even if the "disorganized and undisciplined" Americans did intervene, Holtzendorff assured the Kaiser, "I give your Majesty my word as an officer, that not one American will land on the Continent".

Basically the Germans did not care if their u-boats killed Americans or Brazilians and forced them into the war because they believed they could knock Britain (and France) out before it mattered. Its the same callous disregard they showed for neutral opinion throughout the war including the invasion of Belgium, the first use of poison gas, and the bombing of British civilians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,479,163 times
Reputation: 4185
The war was a betrayal of all Americans, who were expected to serve as cannon fodder for Wilson and his wealthy friends. Naturally, many stupid jingoists scapegoated also German-Americans 'just because.'
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 01:59 PM
 
950 posts, read 1,259,768 times
Reputation: 754
Default Did U>S> gov. betray German Americans in WW1

Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Most Germans in America never lived in Germany, many in fact left because they were political enemies of the Prussians who conquered whatever city state they were in.
Also, Germany was conspiring with Mexico to invade America.

That's true but not for every german american family.My father was german.His mother's family were germans who came from Riga Latvia. Guess they thought there were better opportunities here.
His father's side were Bavarians.Great grandpa was from Himmelstadt and great grandma from Gambach.
according to my dad great grandma thought there were great fortunes or whatever to be made in America.
It was her idea to go,,not really his. The family owned land,,businesses and were invovled in politics.Those who were in the miltary belonged to the officer class;like grandpa's cousin Generaloberst Carl Hilpert commander of Army Group Courland(Kurland in german) during WW2
They did such things as search and seizure of items.That happend to my great grandfather when they lived in Hot Springs during WW1.Took some of his military things like his sword and such.I think only a couple of his things were returned.The jerks kept the rest,never did get them back. Wasn't allowed to go certain places like around the Army Navy Hospital ,,etc.etc.
German americans couldn't do this ,,,,,,,,,,,,that or the other during this time period even though they proved their loyalty by enlisting and dying in Flanders fields as they say.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2014, 06:59 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,048,770 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
The war was a betrayal of all Americans, who were expected to serve as cannon fodder for Wilson and his wealthy friends. Naturally, many stupid jingoists scapegoated also German-Americans 'just because.'
Well that's a very Debsian argument.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2014, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 925,387 times
Reputation: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Well that's a very Debsian argument.
Well, even a Socialist can get something right occasionally.

Ditto for William Jennings Bryan, even if it's only in the same way that a stopped clock is right two times a day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-15-2014, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,479,163 times
Reputation: 4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Well that's a very Debsian argument.
I'm more of an Emma Goldman kinda guy, but sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2014, 01:28 AM
 
Location: un peu près de Chicago
773 posts, read 2,631,630 times
Reputation: 523
My father's parents emigrated from Bremerhaven, Germany to Baltimore MD on the Norddeutcher Lloyd (North German LLoyd) line in 1875. At that time Baltimore was a large point of entry for immigrants, much like Ellis Island in NY. They settled in a German neighborhood along the Baltimore waterfront.

When WWI broke out, the authorities painted a line down Fort Avenue, (the street leading to Ft. McHenry), and declared that all non-citizens had to live on one side of the line for reasons of port security. Unfortunately, my grandparents, having lived in the US about 40 years on the wrong side of the line, had never bothered to become US citizens. Hence they were considered as enemy aliens.

They were forced to sell their house and to move across the street to be on the other side of the line. They became citizens soon afterward.

My father, who was born in the US, spoke German, but he never spoke it at home. I took French in high school, because it was easier.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2014, 03:52 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
472 posts, read 925,387 times
Reputation: 416
Going back to the original question, the answer is yes, but only slightly more than they "betrayed" anyone who dared to have a mind of his own on the subject.

See the David M Kennedy book which I mentioned earlier, and also Thomas Fleming's The Illusion of Victory, which isn't as good but contains a lot of interesting material. Expressing any reservations about the war, the draft, or just about anything the Wilson Administration did, exposed you to legal persecution at best, and often mob violence.

Ironically, the exclusion of dissenting publications from the Federal Mails silenced many radical and progressive voices who might have supported Wilson in the League of nations battle, and contributed much to his defeat. The end of his Presidency was tragic, but he brought it entirely on himself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top