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Old 09-11-2014, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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Why did France waste lives and money fighting to hold onto Indochina and then Algeria after World War Two? Were they vital to France's economy?
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Why did France waste lives and money fighting to hold onto Indochina and then Algeria after World War Two? Were they vital to France's economy?
Why does any country fight to hold its territory?
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Old 09-11-2014, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Prestige restoration.

France got reduced in actuality to a Jr. partner among the Allies as a consequence of needing America and Great Britain to rescue them from Nazi occupation. In the minds of the French, especially DeGaulle, France at all times retained its equal stature as an ally. This was a tough act to pull off since France had quit the war in 1940 and only rejoined the effort (with soldiers equipped entirely by America and Great Britain) for the final ten months.

Never short on gall, DeGaulle demanded that France receive an equal occupation zone in Germany and in general behaved like they had been in the war the whole time and merited the same credit for defeating the Nazis as their allies.

Part of this "We're still as great as ever" complex from which they were suffering, was the restoration of their pre war colonial empire...as in "Nothing has changed, we're still a mighty power." Their martial efforts in Vietnam and Algeria were attempts to validate this image in the eyes of the world. They were trying to erase their recent humiliation at Germany's hands by acting like the pre war balance of power had not been altered in any manner.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Prestige restoration.

France got reduced in actuality to a Jr. partner among the Allies as a consequence of needing America and Great Britain to rescue them from Nazi occupation. In the minds of the French, especially DeGaulle, France at all times retained its equal stature as an ally. This was a tough act to pull off since France had quit the war in 1940 and only rejoined the effort (with soldiers equipped entirely by America and Great Britain) for the final ten months.

Never short on gall, DeGaulle demanded that France receive an equal occupation zone in Germany and in general behaved like they had been in the war the whole time and merited the same credit for defeating the Nazis as their allies.

Part of this "We're still as great as ever" complex from which they were suffering, was the restoration of their pre war colonial empire...as in "Nothing has changed, we're still a mighty power." Their martial efforts in Vietnam and Algeria were attempts to validate this image in the eyes of the world. They were trying to erase their recent humiliation at Germany's hands by acting like the pre war balance of power had not been altered in any manner.
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Old 09-12-2014, 01:08 PM
 
Location: The Triad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Why did France waste lives and money fighting to hold onto Indochina and then Algeria after World War Two? Were they vital to France's economy?

Indochina is easy: money.
Michelin Rubber Plantation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Algeria... best I can come up with is ego
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Old 09-12-2014, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Indochina is easy: money.
Michelin Rubber Plantation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Algeria... best I can come up with is ego
Algeria was a little different in that it was administered as an integral part of metropolitan France. There were also a lot of white settlers in Algeria (called the pied noirs) who wanted to stay part of France.

That may account for why the political struggle in France regarding Algeria was a lot more heated and divisive than with Vietnam (far away), to the point where De Gaulle faced assassination attempts and attempted coups when he moved to give Algeria independence.
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:31 PM
 
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Colonial ambition. France was also short of funds post WWII and financed part of the war by being complicit in the heroin trade. France also allowed local (as in France) gangsters to traffic in heroin in exchange for breaking up striking dock workers (who were interrupting the flow of war materials to Indo China) and in general giving a hard time to union workers and socialists.
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
Colonial ambition. France was also short of funds post WWII and financed part of the war by being complicit in the heroin trade. France also allowed local (as in France) gangsters to traffic in heroin in exchange for breaking up striking dock workers (who were interrupting the flow of war materials to Indo China) and in general giving a hard time to union workers and socialists.
Sez who?
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
Colonial ambition. France was also short of funds post WWII and financed part of the war by being complicit in the heroin trade. France also allowed local (as in France) gangsters to traffic in heroin in exchange for breaking up striking dock workers (who were interrupting the flow of war materials to Indo China) and in general giving a hard time to union workers and socialists.
You got it a bit mixed up.

The US actually helped finance France's Indochinese war after 1945, up to 70% of the materials were supplied by the USA, under the auspices of fighting Communism. It wasn't national policy as you imply to use narcotics to finance the war.

If you're talking about Marseille, yes, local gangs were in cahoots with authorities, but actually it was the Socialists who emerged victorious - and they were backed by the CIA, who found them to be a better partner than either the Gaullists (too independent of the US) or the Communists (the US did not want them to having any control of the port, through which Marshall Plan goods entered). The Communists got crushed. Once the Socialists got into power of Marseille's government (and for much of the postwar era), they were tacit partners with the Corsican underworld in Marseille, who did deal narcotics.
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Algeria was a little different in that it was administered as an integral part of metropolitan France. There were also a lot of white settlers in Algeria (called the pied noirs) who wanted to stay part of France.

That may account for why the political struggle in France regarding Algeria was a lot more heated and divisive than with Vietnam (far away), to the point where De Gaulle faced assassination attempts and attempted coups when he moved to give Algeria independence.
This is a good summary. Northern Algeria included three (later 17) départements of France (akin to states or counties).
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