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Eh Id dispute the U.S. at least heading into the direction of another holocaust. The U.S. is moving to a very liberal stance in a very short amount of time. In a population that gets offended by flags, I seriously doubt there will be any mass slaughtering here. The middle east however.....
I didn't say the U.S. was moving into Holocaust mode. Far from it.
I do say that the memory of the Holocaust is fading fast and anti-Semitism is becoming more politically correct. We now call it "anti-Zionism" or "BDS."
Well, since we humans are just glorified primates with delusions of grandeur, the question isn't "how could/did it happen?" The real question is why doesn't it happen more often? But of course given what we inherently are it will happen again. Again and again and again and again.... The history of mankind as it has been up until now will be our future until we are finally, thankfully, gone. The uniforms, the slogans, the ideologies, the particular "tribes" involved will change, but in terms of essentials nothing will ever really change.
Hitler had the right idea; he just shouldn't have stopped with the Jews. He should have incinerated every human on this planet and then shot himself in the head to finish the job....
This (History Channel's-3rd Reich rise and fall) is the most fascinating piece I have ever seen on Nazi Germany. People think it can't happen in other places, but it can.
"It's easy to throw stones. Easy to sit in judgment when you are in the midst of abundance. Roast chicken and the good life. We'd do differently people say. We would have long since shaken off the dictatorship of Nazi terror. Would they really have?"
"Some of what you will see has never been shown on American television before and some of it cannot be seen in Germany even today. These are their words. These are their films. This is the rise of the 3rd reich"
"This is not the story of how Adolf Hitler seized power in Germany. This is the story of HOW and WHY the German people GAVE it to him."
"The treaty that ended the first world war had 440 clauses. 414 of them were devoted to punishing Germany."
"If you were German in 1919, your peace was humiliation and suffering. Money was worthless. Berlin was a swamp of depravity. Everything and everyone was for sale. Not only money, but all standards have lost their value. Saviors appeared everywhere declaring they have been sent by god to save the world. But in German, there is no plural word for savior.There can be only one."
"Most Germans still thought of Hitler as too radical. If they thought of him at all. But within 3 months, Wall Street would crash, and take the German economy down with it. Within 1 year, the Nazi's would become one of the largest political parties in Germany"
"While we descended into misery and called anxiously for a savior. He emerged. Like a mountain. Columns march. Drums beat. And a 100,000 men stand firmly gathered around 1 man. Now, build up your people oh master. A new fatherland awaits."
Last edited by Thatsright19; 07-12-2015 at 06:47 AM..
And that hatred is resuming now that the Shoah is fading into enough of a memory that some deny its reality.
My impression is that historically the Jews were hated by many just because they were Jewish (and I guess some of that dates back to the crucifixion of Jesus.
Then, because of what the Nazis did, there was more of an up-swell of sentiment in favor of Jewish interests, hence the creation of the nation of Israel.
Now, however, -- fairly or not -- the handling of the Palestinian issue by Israel has tremendously tarnished Israel's standing in the world. In my view, it has lost for Israel the public relations war because they are perceived as now not being the oppressed, but are seen as the oppressors. And, as everyone knows the little secret -- Israel probably does have nukes.
Once one loses the sympathies of the public, it's a tough row to hoe.
My impression is that historically the Jews were hated by many just because they were Jewish (and I guess some of that dates back to the crucifixion of Jesus.
Then, because of what the Nazis did, there was more of an up-swell of sentiment in favor of Jewish interests, hence the creation of the nation of Israel.
Now, however, -- fairly or not -- the handling of the Palestinian issue by Israel has tremendously tarnished Israel's standing in the world. In my view, it has lost for Israel the public relations war because they are perceived as now not being the oppressed, but are seen as the oppressors. And, as everyone knows the little secret -- Israel probably does have nukes.
Once one loses the sympathies of the public, it's a tough row to hoe.
How do you propose Israelis handle the Palestinian issue ?
Give them full citizenship ? These people refuse to recognize the State of Israel and wow to kill all the Jews. Giving them citizenship would be suicidal.
Just let them go and give them territories of Gaza and West Bank and tell them to make their own country ? They will never agree to just these territories, they will keep lobbing rockets and blowing up buses in Israel, as they did for the past 60 years. So Israel would have no choice but to go back in. As they did in the past.
There's no solution to the Palestinian issue that Israel can make on it's own. There's also nothing that the Palestinians can do on their own, even if they wanted to. Both sides are held hostage by the outside forces that need the conflict to go on and on and on.
And it's pointless to try and win the sympathy of people that prefer to just hate you anyway.
When some Palestinians die in Israel retaliation strikes, it's front page news.
When Lebanese Christian Militia massacred about a 1,000 to 3,000 Lebanese Islamic refuges at Sabra and Shatila, the media put all the blame on Israel for not preventing it, and Israel is still widely blamed for it 35 years later.
When Jordanian Royal Guards killed about 10,000 Palestinians in a single night of violence that was later called the Black September Massacre, the media and Western Liberals got over their outrage pretty fast. No one seems to remember this today, or holds Jordanian Royal family responsible for it; King Abdullah certainly gets plenty of sympathy.
When there was a string of terrorist acts deliberately targeting Israeli children (like the pizza parlor massacre, the school bus shootings etc), the media was uncharacteristically reserved, definitely not treating it as a big deal.
Yet if there was a single instance of Israeli terrorist deliberately targeting small Palestinian children, like the pizzeria bomber did, the media would demonize the entire state of Israel and anyone supporting it for years and years.
It's pointless to try and win sympathy from the leftist media that hate Israel and often mask their anti-semitism as "anti-Zionism". ("We don't hate all Jews, only the ones that support a Jewish state in the Middle East").
And it's not going to get any better, not with much of Europe slowly turning into Eurabia.
How do you propose Israelis handle the Palestinian issue ?
Give them full citizenship ? These people refuse to recognize the State of Israel and wow to kill all the Jews. Giving them citizenship would be suicidal.
Just let them go and give them territories of Gaza and West Bank and tell them to make their own country ? They will never agree to just these territories, they will keep lobbing rockets and blowing up buses in Israel, as they did for the past 60 years. So Israel would have no choice but to go back in. As they did in the past.
There's no solution to the Palestinian issue that Israel can make on it's own. There's also nothing that the Palestinians can do on their own, even if they wanted to. Both sides are held hostage by the outside forces that need the conflict to go on and on and on.
And it's pointless to try and win the sympathy of people that prefer to just hate you anyway.
When some Palestinians die in Israel retaliation strikes, it's front page news.
When Lebanese Christian Militia massacred about a 1,000 to 3,000 Lebanese Islamic refuges at Sabra and Shatila, the media put all the blame on Israel for not preventing it, and Israel is still widely blamed for it 35 years later.
When Jordanian Royal Guards killed about 10,000 Palestinians in a single night of violence that was later called the Black September Massacre, the media and Western Liberals got over their outrage pretty fast. No one seems to remember this today, or holds Jordanian Royal family responsible for it; King Abdullah certainly gets plenty of sympathy.
When there was a string of terrorist acts deliberately targeting Israeli children (like the pizza parlor massacre, the school bus shootings etc), the media was uncharacteristically reserved, definitely not treating it as a big deal.
Yet if there was a single instance of Israeli terrorist deliberately targeting small Palestinian children, like the pizzeria bomber did, the media would demonize the entire state of Israel and anyone supporting it for years and years.
It's pointless to try and win sympathy from the leftist media that hate Israel and often mask their anti-semitism as "anti-Zionism". ("We don't hate all Jews, only the ones that support a Jewish state in the Middle East").
And it's not going to get any better, not with much of Europe slowly turning into Eurabia.
You know, the problem is that you didn't read my post. You read what you wanted my post to say so that you could go on a rant.
I didn't take a position on what should be done with the Palestinians (although I do have a view on it).
My stated position was simply that Israel is losing the public relations war, and that will ultimately affect how many, many, many people see Jews.
You know, the problem is that you didn't read my post. You read what you wanted my post to say so that you could go on a rant.
I didn't take a position on what should be done with the Palestinians (although I do have a view on it).
My stated position was simply that Israel is losing the public relations war, and that will ultimately affect how many, many, many people see Jews.
No, I understood your position.
I am just saying that Israel can't win a public relations war when the majority of Western media is run by the leftists who have a strongly pronounced bias against the country and the Jews at large, and don't even pretend to do a balanced reporting on the events in the Middle East.
When deliberate targeting of small children by Arab terrorists is ignored or played down, while even a smallest offense of Israelis against Arabs is blown up to epic proportions, what exactly is Israel supposed to do - other than committing a mass suicide - to make the media happy ?
This (History Channel's-3rd Reich rise and fall) is the most fascinating piece I have ever seen on Nazi Germany. People think it can't happen in other places, but it can.
"It's easy to throw stones. Easy to sit in judgment when you are in the midst of abundance. Roast chicken and the good life. We'd do differently people say. We would have long since shaken off the dictatorship of Nazi terror. Would they really have?"
"Some of what you will see has never been shown on American television before and some of it cannot be seen in Germany even today. These are their words. These are their films. This is the rise of the 3rd reich"
"This is not the story of how Adolf Hitler seized power in Germany. This is the story of HOW and WHY the German people GAVE it to him."
"The treaty that ended the first world war had 440 clauses. 414 of them were devoted to punishing Germany."
"If you were German in 1919, your peace was humiliation and suffering. Money was worthless. Berlin was a swamp of depravity. Everything and everyone was for sale. Not only money, but all standards have lost their value. Saviors appeared everywhere declaring they have been sent by god to save the world. But in German, there is no plural word for savior.There can be only one."
"Most Germans still thought of Hitler as too radical. If they thought of him at all. But within 3 months, Wall Street would crash, and take the German economy down with it. Within 1 year, the Nazi's would become one of the largest political parties in Germany"
"While we descended into misery and called anxiously for a savior. He emerged. Like a mountain. Columns march. Drums beat. And a 100,000 men stand firmly gathered around 1 man. Now, build up your people oh master. A new fatherland awaits."
EVERYONE needs to watch this and The Fall, about the end. It's telling history from the point of view of ordinary people, including ordinary soldiers. It shows how *easy* it is, given the right setting, for a meglamaniac leader to with good personal skills to slide into power. There are a few scenes in it which will never be forgotten. There is the young German soldier, drafted in, in his early twenties. His unit was sent East. He returned silent and broken, and cried himself to sleep. One day he took his childrens dolls and made a campfire and hung them over it before he burned them. The family hid it, knowing whatever he'd seen wasn't to be revealed or he and they would pay. Shortly after, he committed sucide.
How many others who were not able to lie or saw what they were not supposed to followed suit? How many buried everything they had to just to survive?
It doesn't excuse the ones who inspired this funeral pyre of dolls, but not everyone was one of them.
I've seen this documentary several times over and it opens a window into a horrible world without needing to excuse it.
Once when I was in high school, we had a 'general arts' class. It covered many forms, including performance. We were told to come in, sit and be quiet. The lights were half on. Then when everyone was there the teacher shut the door, turned down the lights more and our guest arrived.
He kept up the autovisuals, but he'd also survived the occupation of Holland as a child.
He started off with the date, and you are looking out your window as the soldiers and their tanks and trucks fill the streets. He filled the hour and some with personal references, seeing a horse fall over dead in the street and the passers by and people living near stripping it to bone in minutes, hearing noises which were raids in the night and lying still and quiet until they stopped.... and so on.
And then they turned up the lights. We were there with him by then. All the blond girls were told to stand. I was a blond girl. It was announced we would come to this place the next day or found and be taken, to breed more of the superior race. Can't describe the feeling it gave me. But I still remember that.
Sadly our guest is gone and his generation is fading. I wish someone had recorded him so it could be shared forward. But it changed the way I saw the dry stuff in books, and started me on reading personal memiours of those who lived.
Everyone should try reading a few.
Long ago the normal method of disposing of the unwanted survivors of the enemy was either enslaving them or just killing them, because either way they'd end up dead and not be your problem again. Parts of humanity hasn't gotten much past that. Hitler and his goal of ridding the world of undesirables proves its still waiting around the corner if we fall off into that them and us absolute that them are automatically the enemy. Sad to say, some catastrophy which crashes our carefully built system and we just might be there again.
I am just saying that Israel can't win a public relations war when the majority of Western media is run by the leftists who have a strongly pronounced bias against the country and the Jews at large, and don't even pretend to do a balanced reporting on the events in the Middle East.
When deliberate targeting of small children by Arab terrorists is ignored or played down, while even a smallest offense of Israelis against Arabs is blown up to epic proportions, what exactly is Israel supposed to do - other than committing a mass suicide - to make the media happy ?
I consider myself pro-Israel. I support Israel and I am proud that America took the lead in 1948. to support the creation of Israel through the actions of the United Nations.
I supported Israel in 1967 when it beat the pants off Syria, Egypt, and Jordan in the June War.
I supported Israel in 1973 when it beat Egypt and Syria in that war.
I supported Israel in 2014, when it attacked Gaza to stop idiots there from firing missiles into Israel.
My support for Israel isn't blind or endless though. I think Israelis need to negotiate a "two-state solution" with the Palestinians. Doing so, would result in diplomatic recognition of Israel by most Arab states. Eventually, there will be more Palestinians than Israelis. This is a demographic fact. Israel can either commit to tighter military rule and control of Palestinians, or it can go about giving them their own state. The UN intended for Palestinians to have their own state and that state was supposed to be in Palestine. Not in some other Arab country. Past violence between the two groups does not negate the rights of Palestinians to their own country.
Palestinians on the West Bank have not behaved the same way that Palestinians in Gaza have. It is wrong to simply lump them all in the same group.
One can support Israel without supporting Netanyahu and the conservative Likud Party. The fact is that I just don't like Bibi. Since he has been in office, I've seen him do nothing, but criticize this country and its President. Nothing in that statement means that if Israel were genuinely in jeopardy that I would not be among one of their first supporters.
The Israel-Palestinian Conflict is not black and white. Its nuanced and the USA cannot and should not totally support one side while totally denying the other any consideration of fairness.
Finally, understanding such complexities is not anti-Semitism. Its simply using one's head.
I agree that the two state solution is the key, however it can't happen without Palestinians accepting the legitimacy of Jewish state in return, otherwise it's not a peace but mere rearmament.
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