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Old 05-04-2016, 06:31 PM
 
Location: az
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Admiral Yamamoto warned the Japanese high command that war with the US was unwinnable. The Japanese Navy would run wild for a year or so but once the US war machine geared up it was over. Japan would lose.

However, the group of military fanatics who were basically running Japan at the time believed a fast land grab of islands would force the US into a quick deal especially given what was going on over in Europe.

They were wrong and the rest is history.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:27 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232 View Post
Admiral Yamamoto warned the Japanese high command that war with the US was unwinnable. The Japanese Navy would run wild for a year or so but once the US war machine geared up it was over. Japan would lose.

However, the group of military fanatics who were basically running Japan at the time believed a fast land grab of islands would force the US into a quick deal especially given what was going on over in Europe.

They were wrong and the rest is history.
The Japanese nation learned that the zaibatsu had a better program than the gumbatsu. Unfortunately it took a long war to sort this out. The 26 February Incident proved to the militarists that they could buffalo the government and get their way. Lesson to any country that would allow the military tail to wag the government dog.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:29 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Originally Posted by john3232 View Post
Admiral Yamamoto warned the Japanese high command that war with the US was unwinnable. The Japanese Navy would run wild for a year or so but once the US war machine geared up it was over. Japan would lose.
BTW, Isoruku told the Emperor "I will run wild for six months to a year. After that I guarantee nothing." He would never have said the Japan would lose. Right up to August 15th, 1945, many Japanese, military and public, believed Japan could still win the war.
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Old 05-05-2016, 01:54 AM
 
Location: az
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
BTW, Isoruku told the Emperor "I will run wild for six months to a year. After that I guarantee nothing." He would never have said the Japan would lose. Right up to August 15th, 1945, many Japanese, military and public, believed Japan could still win the war.
Admiral Yamamoto who had lived in the States for a time made it clear to the Japanese high command Japan couldn't win a protracted with the States. That war would be a huge mistake.

Propaganda had the Japanese public believing the war was going well until the U.S. bombers started showing up.

The J-military knew the war was clearly lost by 1945 but held out hopes of getting a better deal than unconditional surrender. They realized the American public was tired of war especially after Germany surrendered. The Japanese believed the American military didn't want an on-going bloodbath after the costly Iwo Jima and Okinawa campaigns which is what an invasion of Japan would have been. The Japanese Navy was destroyed but Japan still had a formable army left to defend the homeland.

The A bomb changed all this.

Last edited by john3232; 05-05-2016 at 02:02 AM..
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Old 05-05-2016, 04:55 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Yamamoto got a C- in his English class taken through extension services while he was in Boston, yes. And he liked to play poker. He was assigned to duty in the US on two occasions for about three years total, IIRC.

But I don't know why you quoted me above.
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:47 AM
 
Location: az
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Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
Yamamoto got a C- in his English class taken through extension services while he was in Boston, yes. And he liked to play poker. He was assigned to duty in the US on two occasions for about three years total, IIRC.

But I don't know why you quoted me above.

By 1945 the public was indeed aware the war effort wasn't gong well. Public rations had been reduced and U.S. bombers had began to appear. I don't know what kind of grades Yamamoto got while studying at Harvard but it's my understanding he spoke English fluently.

My wife's Japanese and her father told me about how his mother moved the family from Tokyo to the countryside shortly after the raids started. His father was in the navy and assigned to a supply ship. He too survived.

I lived in Tokyo for a number of years and there was local pharmacy where the pharmacist had on the counter a photo showing a young man standing next to a fighter plane. I asked if that was him in the photo and was the plane a Zero. Yes, to both questions. He didn't speak much English and my Japanese wasn't very good so we left it that.

(I wondered if the pharmacist was an ace pilot. I read the book, "Zero" and by 1945 the only the very best of the J-pilots could beat the Americans who now flew the superior Hellcat and P-38 fighters. The rest were getting shot down almost as fast as they got sent up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ces_from_Japan)

Last edited by john3232; 05-05-2016 at 07:00 AM..
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:13 AM
 
Location: az
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Here`s a few recommend books on the Pacific conflict for those interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Destr...ilpage_o00_s00

https://www.amazon.com/Zero-Masatake...s=books&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Samurai-Martin...Z42H3GGTE44KW0
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:42 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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The Japanese public was aware, and irrelevant. The Big Six made policy and everyone followed it. So, when Gen. Anami declared "One hundred million dead to save the Empire"* everybody pretty much knew they'd die if there wasn't a miracle. And early in 1945 every Japanese adult between certain ages (45-60 depending on gender) was officially declared to be a combatant. This further reduced the chances they'd survive an invasion.



*Japan only had 70,000,000. The Allies were expected to make up the difference I imagine.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:47 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Dwyer's War Without Mercy is an interesting read.

Togo Shigenori's The Cause of Japan is a first person record of his tenure as Foreign Minister in Tojo's cabinet at the start of the Pacific War and as the same in Suzuki's at the end of the war.

Eri Hotta's 1941 covers the run up to the war in Japan.

Japan's Longest Day, produced by the Pacific War Research Society in Japan, covers the efforts to end the war.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:54 AM
 
Location: az
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
The Japanese public was aware, and irrelevant. The Big Six made policy and everyone followed it. So, when Gen. Anami declared "One hundred million dead to save the Empire"* everybody pretty much knew they'd die if there wasn't a miracle. And early in 1945 every Japanese adult between certain ages (45-60 depending on gender) was officially declared to be a combatant. This further reduced the chances they'd survive an invasion.



*Japan only had 70,000,000. The Allies were expected to make up the difference I imagine.

By the time Germany surrendered America had grown weary of war and wanted an end to the Pacific conflict. After Iwo Jima and Okinawa the US military realized a fight on the Japanese mainland would be a massive bloodbath. At the same time even the most fanatic of the Japanese military didn't expect they could win. What they wanted was to force the Americans into better terms. They believed thoughts of a horrendous fight on the mainland would soften the Americans demands and they were right. The US was worried. Not they couldn't defeat the Japanese but the American casualty rate would be astronomical.

Talks between the US and Japan about ending the war were slowing starting. However, the dropping of the two A bombs pushed Japanese into almost immediate unconditional surrender. The only concession by the US was they could keep their emperor.
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