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I pity Katherine of Aragon the most, she was happily married to a man she all but worshipped and one day he cast her aside. I do think, for her part, she could have been Anne of Cleves in that she could have lived out her day peacefully in religion with money, food, lodgings and servants had she accepted that he was putting her aside. And history would likely have played out a lot differently also. If she had retired to a convent there would have been no break with Rome and no Church of England, at least not at that point.
Its actually a great way to consider the "Butterfly affect" If you think of all the events surrounding Henry 8 and his wives and how one small change would have made a profound impact on the world at large, its quite obvious how small decisions have big consequences. What if, just 1 of K of A sons had lived? What is Anne B got pregnant 1 day later and had a different child. What is K of A had decided to retire to a convent. What if Wolsey had been able to convince the Pope to annul the marriage. What is K of A had gotten pregnant when she was married to Arthur or had had a public consummation of marriage.
As far as treatment is concerned,
K of A had it the worst. She lived in poverty and half starvation waiting for her marriage to literally anyone after Arthur died. Bore and buried 6 children. Was put aside in a terrible and abusive way and treated with contempt and vindictiveness, separated from her only living child, dying slowly in a dark, dank, cold and moldy castle. AND Anne B was put to death only 5 months after she died, which is very sad for her indeed. If she had been in a proper home with warmth and food and care she most likely would have lived to see her enemy slain.
Anne of Cleves likely had it best followed by K. Parr as they both outlived him and achieved some modicum of satisfaction for their lives.
Jane S just lived a typical courtly life. She served the court and the noblewomen as a young woman, she married who she was told to marry, she accepted her lot, she produced an heir and she died in stately care. All Henry cared about was an heir but I think he genuinely loved her and kept her alive for their son through his obvious affection for her. He mourned her and I think called her is only true wife.
Anne and K. Howard are 2 very different stories with 2 equally tragic ends.
For Anne's part, she started an affair (in word only as far as the story goes) manipulated the king and strung him along until he had killed or banished anyone who ever kept him in check. She turned Bloody Mary I into who she was with a deep seeded hatred for all things protestant. She convinced Henry of his unlimited power which saw the execution of both Wolsey and T. Moore (who was one of his greatest friends), his break with Rome, his election of a protestant as Archbishop of Canterbury (Cranmer) and as his greatest advisor (until his own fall from Grace) Cromwell. She convinced him that she knew what was right and how to advise him when she was really showing him he could do whatever he pleased. Pity that she didnt consider what might happen if that power and enmity turned on her. He admired her spunk, intelligence and her charisma as his mistress. As his wife, he wanted her docile and submissive as K of A was. He famously said of her "she did not close her eyes as her betters had done" in referring to his affairs. I dont believe she deserved to die, but she only lived a few months with his disfavor as she was charged and put to death very fast. After courting for almost 10 years and she was in her 30s. She lived a great life and had a tragic end.
Katherine Howard...by all accounts ive seen she wasnt very intelligent and knew how to use her whiles to get what she wanted. She wasnt forced to bend to the will of anyone, she was young and beautiful and full of energy and the King loved that. But had she just had a passing affair with the king as so many before her (which would have been easily done by bedding him early in their courting, he would likely have moved on quickly, she could have found favor and a good husband even if not the one she would have chosen, probably one who was young and virile which Henry definitely was not.
She had courtly relationships with men other than her husband and even if she didnt have physical relationships her interactions were outside of appropriate. Her youth and naivety was her downfall. And while Culpeper was certainly a lecher I dont think he forced her. In fact, if she was following what was considered appropriate and not acting with impropriety he couldnt have forced her, as she would not have been alone with him. She had 200 servants and ladies in waiting, she really had to try and be alone with someone. women most likely slept in her chamber with her and guards outside her door. If he snuck in and raped her she could have called out and he would have been put to death the next day as the Queens person was considered sacred. She had an affair and was punished for it. He was old and infirm, she would have been quite young when he died and she would have been able to live out her days in peace, he would probably have even allowed her to remarry (that would have been unusual). She was 15 when they married, 17 when she was killed. He died 5 years later. If she had survived just 7 years of marriage she would have been free
As such, 500 years later Katerine of Aragon is the victim and Anne is a harlot. Thats quite a lasing reputation and mark on the world.
As such, 500 years later Katerine of Aragon is the victim and Anne is a harlot. Thats quite a lasing reputation and mark on the world.
If you ever want to consider a person who, in retrospect, bore the weight of the world on her shoulders, it would be Katherine of Aragon. In addition to all we know about her and Henry VIII, she was the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain who financed Columbus' voyage to America. She was Regent while Henry was fighting in France and faced an invasion by James IV of Scotland. She raised an army and, wearing her own armor, addressed the troops and possibly rode into battle, defeating James at the Battle of Flodden. James was killed in the battle. She was obviously pregnant at the time.
If you ever want to consider a person who, in retrospect, bore the weight of the world on her shoulders, it would be Katherine of Aragon. In addition to all we know about her and Henry VIII, she was the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain who financed Columbus' voyage to America. She was Regent while Henry was fighting in France and faced an invasion by James IV of Scotland. She raised an army and, wearing her own armor, addressed the troops and possibly rode into battle, defeating James at the Battle of Flodden. James was killed in the battle. She was obviously pregnant at the time.
K of A taking up the mantle of regent and war-queen at a time when England was fighting a bloody battle on 2 fronts and killing her sister-in-laws husband was truly the legacy that Isabella of Castille left for her. She had no reason to think that women couldnt be both worshipful and dutiful to their husband while fierce and strategic on the battlefield. She was an amazing woman and she was both a credit to Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand as well as to England which is why it is even more heinous the way she was treated.
It's amazing how we are fascinated by a monarch who chopped people's heads off if he didn't like them or just to get his kicks.
Ha we are endlessly fascinated by the macabre and how unbelievable his actions were in a time when both courtly rules and the Church were forbidding his actions. And he made the decision no one before him dared to make, to make his own decisions. However bloody they happened to be. But oddly enough, I think its the sensationalism that really gets him fame. His grandmother Margaret OR his Great uncle Richard III had both his uncles murdered in the tower of London when they were children to prevent their ascension which is what paved the way for Henry VII to claim the throne as a long lost Lancastrian heir, putting an end to the war of the roses.
Also, his mother Elizabeth of York is the Queen in a deck of cards.
It’s like England didn’t have other cruel kings.
Of all the English kings, we are particularly fascinated by Henry VIII, who was especially ruthless towards his subjects. Maybe some future generation will be similarly fascinated by Adolf Hitler.
Which of King Henry's VIII wives got the worst treatment?
I'll answer the question honestly. The two that got their heads chopped off.
Some of you guys are plain nuts. If the question was "who did you admire the most?" or" who dealt with things the most graciously?", or even "who do you pity the most?", then that's an entirely different question. The question is not who acted the best or worst, or who deserved what they got.
Sorry, I'd be happy to live in poverty if the alternative is getting my head chopped off. In the end, I still had pity for Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard. They might not have been great individuals, slept around, and didn't treat others nicely, but is a just punishment for this getting your head chopped off?
I think especially for Anne Boleyn that she was an evil scheming and conniving temptress is greatly exaggerated. I think certainly people look up to Catherine of Aragon for acting nobly and with pure intentions in an age of deception and power plays. However, I'll take being poor and living out the remainder of my life in a castle any day compared to being executed.
Which of King Henry's VIII wives got the worst treatment?
I'll answer the question honestly. The two that got their heads chopped off.
Some of you guys are plain nuts. If the question was "who did you admire the most?" or" who dealt with things the most graciously?", or even "who do you pity the most?", then that's an entirely different question. The question is not who acted the best or worst, or who deserved what they got.
Sorry, I'd be happy to live in poverty if the alternative is getting my head chopped off. In the end, I still had pity for Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard. They might not have been great individuals, slept around, and didn't treat others nicely, but is a just punishment for this getting your head chopped off?
I think especially for Anne Boleyn that she was an evil scheming and conniving temptress is greatly exaggerated. I think certainly people look up to Catherine of Aragon for acting nobly and with pure intentions in an age of deception and power plays. However, I'll take being poor and living out the remainder of my life in a castle any day compared to being executed.
Well thats the question of is life in prison better than a swift death? Humans naturally want to survive of course so a life in prison is preferable but I dont really want to live forever in prison. At the end of the day, Katherine being locked away in prison hungry cold and sick WAS a death sentence. Dont think it wasnt. When he found out she was sick he dug in his heels and refused her care and her daughter.
So I think most of us who think Katherine had it worse are looking at how quickly things happened for the murdered queens.
Anne was arrested May 2, taken to the royal apartments in the tower to await and was beheaded May 19th a mere 17 days later.
Katherine Howard was imprisoned in her apartments Nov 7th and was executed the following February, 4 months.
K of A was banished 3 years before she finally succumbed to the illness that killed her, spending that time being increasingly poorly treated as the king slowly withdrew all affection and money from her. Slowly giving her less money for food and clothing. Sending her to increasingly poorer conditions in the homes she lived in, dismissed her friends 1 by 1 until there were only a few people there when she died.
In terms of excessive punishment, yes the 2 that were beheaded were definitely excessively punished. But Katherine was by far treated the worse
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