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Only later did people realize that not only did it not deliver on those promises, but it merely replaced one set of authoritarians for another. And the new bosses were far more ruthless than the old ones.
I didn't "reverse" anything, just pointed at simple facts that seem to escape you. The birth rate went down in 60ies and 70ies because the families were moving from rural areas to cities en mass in that period. (You can't raise big family in apartments as you can do it in the house in rural area, lol.) Plus 60ies and 70ies - that's already after Stalin's death, when abortions were legal again ( Stalin outlawed them for quite some time.)
And that's why although the birth rate became lower than in Stalin's times, it was still going steady during the rest of Soviet era. It plunged down ( with the sharp increase in mortality rates) only with collapse of socialism and social security net.
But you are clueless when it comes to all those factors, right?
Of course you are. [Insults are high praise. I blush.]
P.S. Please don't compare Russia to America and project your American theories onto Russia; these are two absolutely different countries, with different historic background and so on.
I went back to the sources used by WIKI and based on: https://ourworldindata.org/search?q=RUSSIAN+BIRTHRATE
A nice chart popped up.
I could be wrong but it appears that BEFORE the 1917 revolution, birthrates were HIGHER, than after the 1917 revolution.
In fact, the overall curve / trend was downward.
"...period fertility (the conventional total fertility rate) exhibits strong fluctuations against the backdrop of a generally declining trend. The fluctuations in period fertility reflected particular societal events: catastrophic changes in the socioeconomic environment (World Wars I and II, the 1918–1920 civil war, massive repressions during the 1930s, famines in 1932–1933 and in 1947) and the intrusion of the government into the demographic sphere (e.g. adoption of new family policy measures in the 1980s), all of which caused major changes in birth timing."
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Back to the WIKI article - the life expectancy during the 1930s was shocking.
Life expectancy
YEAR MALE FEMALE
1927 33.7 37.9
1928 35.9 40.4
1929 33.7 38.2
1930 34.6 38.7
1931 30.7 35.5
1932 30.5 35.7 1933 15.2 19.5
1934 30.5 35.7
1935 33.1 38.4
1936 30.4 35.7
1937 30.5 40.0
1938 31.7 42.5
(massive repressions during the 1930s, famines in 1932–1933 certainly contributed to population drop, but that's not socialism's fault - or is it?)
During the socialism, the birth rate was positive.
All the data I have seen, shows a downward trend in births per female under socialism.
One of the strongest indicators of "socialist" influence is CUBA.
Birthrate per woman; 1960; 2015
Cuba: 4.2; 1.6 (Impressive result of socialism)
Germany: 2.4; 1.5
Denmark: 2.6; 1.7 ("Happy")
Norway: 2.9; 1.8
Finland: 2.7; 1.8
. . .
Nonsocialists
Mexico: 6.8; 2.2 (exporting their surplus, eh?)
Kuwait:7.2; 2.1
India: 5.9; 2.4
Saudi Arabia: 7.2; 2.7
Syrian Arab Republic: 7.5; 3.0
Afghanistan: 7.5; 4.7
Iraq: 6.3; 4.6
Niger: 7.4; 7.6 (WHOA !)
. . .
Source:
Fertility rate, total (births per woman) | Data http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN
Interesting, but in Russia the aftermath of the fall of the Tzar was a bit more complicated. There were competing political factions and Lenin's Bolsheviks were in the mix. Lenin himself was hiding in Norway. One group of ex-military officers wanted a constitutional government based on the founding documents of the USA. In all this turmoil Lenin sent a trusted friend (a lawyer) to Russia and his assignment was to try and gain the upper hand.
He gave stump speeches and promised “Bread, Land, and Peace” for those who supported the Bolsheviks. That message resonated, and the rest is history. Lenin returned and immediately proceeded to destroy any remaining opposition parties. In the coming decades ~ 20 million Russian peasants perished from starvation.
Who was this highly effective "lawyer'?
You're conflating the destruction of remaining opposition parties with Stalin's organized famines and other issues. Let's back up a bit; what did Lenin do to destroy any opposition parties, specifically?
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-22-2019 at 09:48 AM..
It's NOT "inherently evil". Do you have it confused with FASCISM? THAT"S "inherently evil".
Yes. The OP hasn't responded yet to my request to clarify his topic; is it about communism as an economic system, or is it about the "Evil Empire"? I guess it's the latter; I seem to expect too much from some of our C-D posters/OP's...
The next one will be. He will also be appointed by China.
The DL announced about 15-20 years ago that he won't be reincarnating. China pitched a fit in response, and declared that he MUST reincarnate! He has an obligation to reincarnate! (Note the irony of an anti-religious government weighing in on this.) The DL hasn't changed his mind. Await the scheduled bloodbath.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-22-2019 at 09:58 AM..
What is preferable about democracy? It's a form of government where a majority can persecute a minority. I prefer a republican form, where all men have Creator endowed rights that governments were instituted to secure - and nothing more without consent of the governed.
It's a vast improvement over an abusive theocracy, that's for sure!
During the 19th and 20th century why was communism so accepted in certain countries/regions even despite how inherently evil it was? The USSR was undeniably a very evil regime.
I mean, can anyone name one country at all that was communist and ruled by good people?
Communism was accepted because the poor were oppressed. So a redistribution of wealth and the idea of free health care made it sound like a good idea. However, the revolutions allowed power mad dictators to take over, just as the depression and a few other factors allowed Hitler to take over in Germany.
Communism was accepted because the poor were oppressed. So a redistribution of wealth and the idea of free health care made it sound like a good idea. However, the revolutions allowed power mad dictators to take over, just as the depression and a few other factors allowed Hitler to take over in Germany.
In a nutshell.
Let's re-examine this statement, while we're at it;
Quote:
The USSR was undeniably a very evil regime.
Was it, really? "Inherently", as the OP said? Sure, Stalin was a bit of a nut job, and Lenin et al. were a bit heavy-handed in exiling innocent people to work camps in the hinterlands, but what about their successors? Were they "evil"? If so, what exactly was "evil" about them?
What about our leaders, who authorized coups in other countries, and subsequent brutal repressions resulting in many "disappeared" supporters of deposed elected leaders? Most of the American public has no idea what horrors their government wrought in the developing world, under the guise of "fighting communism", other than the Vietnam War. "At least they didn't oppress their own people", you say? Define "oppress" (post-Stalin). Who killed Kennedy, and MLK, and Langston Hughes, and RFK? What about the infamous FBI Cointelpro project?
Is "evil" in the eye of the beholder to some extent, or are there objective criteria (other than the fact that "they didn't like us")?
Just wondering.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-22-2019 at 10:30 AM..
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The birth rate went down in 60ies and 70ies because the families were moving from rural areas to cities en mass in that period. (You can't raise big family in apartments as you can do it in the house in rural area, lol.) Plus 60ies and 70ies - that's already after Stalin's death, when abortions were legal again ( Stalin outlawed them for quite some time.)
