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It's also worth pointing out that the Aztec and Mayan empires of pre-Columbian times had extensive slavery. ... and those pyramids should be totally knocked down.
Throughout the pre-industrial era across all civilizations, slave labor was the norm. Wage labor became the norm with the onset of the industrial era.
The tragedy of African Americans, and for all people legally on US soil, is that they were marginalized, often brutally, after the First Industrial War and the wage-labor era that resulted from it; we have all lost more than a century and a half of potential productive contribution (a mind is a terrible thing to waste).
It is worth pointing out that all during the Cold War years, the Italian Communist Party never achieved government power, not even a share of it. When the Cold War ended, they entered into government power and changed name.
It's also worth pointing out that the Aztec and Mayan empires of pre-Columbian times had extensive slavery. Both civilizations also practiced some particularly savage religious rites including the burial of live girls when building their temples, to please the gods. Human sacrifice was not uncommon for other rituals as well.
All the old pre-Spanish names really should be changed, and those pyramids should be totally knocked down.
The Aztecs were the worst offenders when it comes to human sacrifice. They would often sacrifice those from captured tribes by ripping out their heart.
The Mayans and Incas had those as well, but they weren't as prominent.
I understand exactly what youre saying. But I believe that they shouldn't be destroyed, but rather relocated. Statues that are in the public and represent things we no longer agree with should be put away and used for teaching, at the very least for preserving history. Not only the history in which they lived but also the history in which they were memorialized and the history in which they were removed. All of those are not insignificant to history and create a very linear path to what we now consider appropriate and moral. But beyond the statues themselves is the issue of holding historical figures to contemporary ideals. Imposing our belief systems on historical people is not a fair metric to use. Yes we now know that slavery is wrong. It has been collectively outlawed for ~200 years. But for the preceding ~2000 years it was not only acceptable it was standard behavior. So we pull down statues of Columbus, Lee, Davis but do not remove all the statues and busts of Caesar and Cleopatra. Those statues/busts/artwork are in museums all over the world in their Egyptian and roman rooms but they built their cities and economies on slavery just as we did. I am also certain that they fought wars with and about slavery.
Sidenote, all children are taught about Benedict Arnold as the great traitor. I grew up in NC and was not once taught a single word about Robert E. Lee. So disappearing any mention of him will undoubtedly make him disappear from history and its a history we are better served to not forget
I don't think they should be destroyed either.
However, when we have a monument, it is to people that we venerate CURRENTLY. Not in the past.
They could be displayed in a "Museum of Confederate History" in each state. However, that museum should not CELEBRATE Confederate culture. It should explain it in context, including the bad and ugly.
These are NOT Civil War-era statues. They were erected in the 1920s for reasons that no state should take pride in. They were erected to "put blacks in their place".
The Confederacy was a crime. An act of treason. It needs to be displayed and curated in that manner. I feel the same way about Plantations. These were forced labor camps - fun for the few who made money from slavery. Fun for sadists and rapists. NOT fun for the majority of people who lived there were starved, beaten, raped, mutilated, tortured, bought and sold.
No ANIMAL should be treated that way. Certainly, no human being should.
Have you visited central or eastern Europe? It's dotted with concentration camps. These are somber places and they are curated in that way. Worth visiting, but they are far from entertaining.
They are monuments to the barbarism that people are capable of perpetuating.
If these monument museums think that selling confederate flag tee shirts, bumper stickers, or ANYTHING that celebrates the genocide that slavery caused, the anguish of its victims, or the treachery of sedition - then NO. The United States fought a war AGAINST the CONFEDERACY. These people are not American heroes. They are traitors.
If you were not taught that Robert E.Lee and Jefferson Davis were traitors, just
like Benedict Arnold and perhaps worse, than your school did not do a good
job of teaching you.
If the goal of these monument exhibitions or plantations is to teach the other side or teach about "The War of Northern Aggression". If they are going to cultivate racism and nostalgia for a time that was horrible for so many people, then, perhaps put them away somewhere.
Unless they educate and elucidate people about the facts, they are worthless and potentially dangerous. We don't celebrate traitors, rapists and sadists.
Francis Scott Key statue ripped down in San Francisco.
Does anyone here doubt for a second where all of this is leading?
Founding fathers, name of any place in America that is offensive or moderately tarnished, name of "America", the continent, the US Constitution...all of it...
Francis Scott Key statue ripped down in San Francisco.
Does anyone here doubt for a second where all of this is leading?
Founding fathers, name of any place in America that is offensive or moderately tarnished, name of "America", the continent, the US Constitution...all of it...
Confederates are not Founding Fathers. Nor are they American heroes of any sort. They fought for the right to own people so they could earn more money.
Yes. I see where this is going. We are dismantling phony sentiment and mythos.
Francis Scott Key statue ripped down in San Francisco.
Does anyone here doubt for a second where all of this is leading?
Founding fathers, name of any place in America that is offensive or moderately tarnished, name of "America", the continent, the US Constitution...all of it...
It will sort itself out. The consensus right now is that only the statues of the confederate leaders need to go.
Confederates are not Founding Fathers. Nor are they American heroes of any sort. They fought for the right to own people so they could earn more money.
Yes. I see where this is going. We are dismantling phony sentiment and mythos.
That's a good this.
You haven't been paying attention to current affairs. This isn't stopping at Confederates...they are just the impetus for a much larger agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359
It will sort itself out. The consensus right now is that only the statues of the confederate leaders need to go.
No it's not. Washington, Jefferson....all of it must go. And once these people figure out the story of Amerigo Vespucci....you think I'm kidding?
Oh, we might not see it in our lifetimes, but I would bet you every single thing I own the name of this nation and it's Constitution will also be burned to the ground.
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Is anyone concerned about the removal of statues?
