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Short answer, the Nazis would have developed the atom bomb and used it liberally on Russia.
In a conventional war, it would have eventually been a stalemate. I don't think the Germans could have successfully occupied Russia over any appreciable length of time.
The Germans weren’t even remotely close to developing a bomb. The Manhattan project devoted absolutely massive amounts of resources…resources Germany didn’t have…or if they did devote to it, they would have crumbled in other areas.
Upon hearing about the bombs in Hiroshima, Werner heizenburg had said “I don’t believe a word of the whole thing”, which should tell you how far away they actually were.
That's exactly correct, especially the last part. People almost always ignore the fact that a Nazi Germany that pursues an atomic bomb on a level where it might actually get one sometime in the 1940s is a Nazi Germany that has a lot fewer fighters/tanks/u-boats/etc. (basically, fewer of everything that costs money, which is ... well ... everything).
And then, they Germany would have an atomic bomb ... and no way to deliver it. Of course, they could build a heavy bomber big enough. But then they'd need to divert even more money from elsewhere.
That's exactly correct, especially the last part. People almost always ignore the fact that a Nazi Germany that pursues an atomic bomb on a level where it might actually get one sometime in the 1940s is a Nazi Germany that has a lot fewer fighters/tanks/u-boats/etc. (basically, fewer of everything that costs money, which is ... well ... everything).
And then, they Germany would have an atomic bomb ... and no way to deliver it. Of course, they could build a heavy bomber big enough. But then they'd need to divert even more money from elsewhere.
And as discussed, they were living on burrowed time from the start. Less resources in other areas, means those offensives are less effective or fail outright, potentially.
Not to mention, it’s entirely possible they would have devoted the resources to it, and simply never “cracked the code”.
But the point the person was making was if America wasn’t involved, it would be a race between Germany and Russia to create a bomb. Who cares what American leadership thinks then?
The USSR wasn't as far along toward building a bomb as Germany was, and we learned later, Germany was nowhere close to having a bomb ready to use in 1944 or even 1945. I read somewhere that the only way they could have delivered one would have been with a completely re-engineered V2 rocket, where accuracy was pretty much a joke.
The USSR wasn't as far along toward building a bomb as Germany was, and we learned later, Germany was nowhere close to having a bomb ready to use in 1944 or even 1945. I read somewhere that the only way they could have delivered one would have been with a completely re-engineered V2 rocket, where accuracy was pretty much a joke.
Yeah, who knows if either side ever makes one.
I could be wrong, but didn’t the Russians only develop one from espionage on the U.S? I honestly don’t know the history of that. But did they ever actually independently discover it? Or did they just fill in the gaps or steal the solution outright?
I would predict a very different outcome to the war. That would have been a stalemate where Germany continued to occupy some of the western regions of the USSR, but did not succeed in beating the Soviet Union.
American aid to the Soviet Union was quite substantial and was acknowledged as such by Nikita Khruschev in his memoirs, Khruschev Remembers. Khruschev questioned American motivation for aiding the Soviet Union and felt some of the aid came later than it should have, but than went on to discuss its importance. Many people in the war made fun of an American canned meat which was frequently given as part of the aid package. This meat is known as "spam". In one of the most complimentary portions of the book, Khruschev said there were plenty of days during the war when he would and thousands of Soviet soldiers would have gone hungry if it were not for all the spam that they had been given by the USA.
America supplied the Soviet Union with huge quantities of trucks and motorized transport. What that motorized transport allowed the Soviet Union to do was fight a highly mechanized war against Germany. It allowed the Red Army to throw the Germans out of Russia.
America would go on to have a long and difficult relationship with the Soviet Union after the war ended. However, I think that despite these tensions that Khruschev always had a sort of warm spot in his heart for America simply based on the help we gave them during World War II. The good deed we did for the Soviet people during World War II was perhaps repaid in a sense in that despite tensions during the Cold War, we never ended up in a shooting war with the Soviet Union.
Khrushchev was a politician, with grudge and dirty consciousness. He never told the truth and open the path toward eventual distraction of the USSR. American help was enormous but was not essential to vin the war.
The USSR wasn't as far along toward building a bomb as Germany was, and we learned later, Germany was nowhere close to having a bomb ready to use in 1944 or even 1945. I read somewhere that the only way they could have delivered one would have been with a completely re-engineered V2 rocket, where accuracy was pretty much a joke.
The Soviet Union was the world’s largest country occupying about one sixth of the planets land surface. Even without US and UK aid the country would have remained viable even after losing it’s Western half to Germany. Even in defeat some Soviet forces would have fallen back and combined with partisan forces to hold territory.
The Germans needed substantial troop strength in occupied Western Europe. And they did not have the troops or a supply chain to maintain and occupy all the way to the Soviet Far East. An atomic bomb on Siberia. Burned and scorched tundra and not much else.
The Soviet Union was the world’s largest country occupying about one sixth of the planets land surface. Even without US and UK aid the country would have remained viable even after losing it’s Western half to Germany. Even in defeat some Soviet forces would have fallen back and combined with partisan forces to hold territory.
The Germans needed substantial troop strength in occupied Western Europe. And they did not have the troops or a supply chain to maintain and occupy all the way to the Soviet Far East. An atomic bomb on Siberia. Burned and scorched tundra and not much else.
Blitzkrieg was Hitler's only chance, once failed under Moscow, he was doomed.
Blitzkrieg was Hitler's only chance, once failed under Moscow, he was doomed.
Although debated, Barbarossa is sometimes said to be delayed because of Germany’s invasion of Greece (alongside the worse than normal spring flooding) where they were fighting the British commonwealth after Italy’s stalemate.
If Barbarossa starts 4 weeks earlier, the Russian winter probably wouldn’t have closed in so catastrophically and the soviets would have had even less time to rally for the critical battle of Moscow.
Again, this scenario assumes “no help” from the British or Americans.
Last edited by Thatsright19; 07-15-2021 at 07:10 PM..
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