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LMAO!!! While our men were fighting and dying at the beaches in Europe and the seas in the Pacific and American mothers were left without husbands and sons, real patriot Rosenberg was at home chilling selling out secrets to the Soviets and working to make the U.S communist.
As stated, he served as an enlistee during the war.
Are Americans fighting in Ukraine? Many American leftists fought in the Lincoln brigade in Spain and in the US army in WWII.
As stated, he served as an enlistee during the war.
Are Americans fighting in Ukraine? Many American leftists fought in the Lincoln brigade in Spain and in the US army in WWII.
He never served in Europe or Pacific. I don't understand your point? He joined the Army as a non-combat that stayed in the states and was kicked out and years later the U.S. and British intelligence discovered he was a traitor against the country.
If the military would have found out prior to his discharge that he was a traitor, he would have been dishonorable discharge and shot. So stop with the "he served as an enlistee during the war" like he charged the beaches of Normandy or rescued sailors from burning ships in the Pacific or charged Iwo Jima. He was a traitor and died as a traitor.
Again, of all the Americans that died between 1941-1952 (over 450,000 Americans) fighting the Nazis, Japan, Korea and preventing WW 3 in the Cold War, smoking these 2 traitors didn't made Americans lose their sleep. I would have done the same thing at the time. Over 450,000 Great Americans didn't have a choice, these 2 traitors did.
At least Klaus Fuchs and others admitted their crimes and didn't kept lying to save their behinds like the Rosenbergs or made the system into a circus. Fuchs admitted his crime and took his punishment and only served 9 years and died of old age of 76 in East Germany in 1988. Rosenbergs were lying their a$$es off all the way to the chair. They pushed their own deaths. The U.S. couldn't look weak and called their bluff.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 10-25-2022 at 05:20 PM..
I do not believe in the death penalty. Ever. The electric chair is cruel and unusual punishment, if there ever was a method. Ethel Rosenberg died a particularly gruesome death. I think cold war hysteria was part of the application of the death penalty.
I wonder what will happen to the last president when the contents of those boxes found at Mar-a-Lago are revealed? I hope they are as enthusiastic with his prosecution.
I do not believe in the death penalty. Ever. The electric chair is cruel and unusual punishment, if there ever was a method. Ethel Rosenberg died a particularly gruesome death. I think cold war hysteria was part of the application of the death penalty.
I wonder what will happen to the last president when the contents of those boxes found at Mar-a-Lago are revealed? I hope they are as enthusiastic with his prosecution.
Yet, I hope he is spared the death penalty.
Moderator Note: Let's keep the thread focused on History and not on Current Events. There is a forum for Current Events.
I do not believe in the death penalty. Ever. The electric chair is cruel and unusual punishment, if there ever was a method. Ethel Rosenberg died a particularly gruesome death. I think cold war hysteria was part of the application of the death penalty.
So were the 450,000 plus Americans that died from 1941 to 1952 that gave the ultimate sacrifice that didn't betrayed their country. They died by all kinds of cruel deaths: Bullets, bombs, fire, drowning, torture, starvation, diseases (slow painful death), suicide by evil enemies. Many Americans didn't make it back so their families could do a proper burial. Many were lost at sea or buried somewhere in Europe. This wasn't Cold War hysteria unless you are a civilian living in a bubble and clueless. We were in a real war and Americans were dying and that's just Americans not counting the rest of the world.
After more than 450,000 fine Americans died doing their duty for our country, smoking these 2 traitors wasn't hard and after 70 years they shouldn't make anyone lose their sleep or re-write history. These 2 people had a choice but they put the Soviet Union and their arrogant cause above our country and their own 2 kids and above the 450,000 Americans that gave the ultimate sacrifice and many others in the front lines.
Funny what is your priority still after 70 years. Them 2 traitors had a choice and at least got a proper burial. 450,000 Americans that died for our country didn't have a choice when they faced their cruel deaths and many of them never made it back to even do a burial by their families. Many are at the bottom of the ocean, made into ashes or buried somewhere in Europe but crickets from you.
I haven't read Doctorow's "The Book of Daniel" in 50 years. Would that still be a useful backdrop to reflect those times, for the modern reader?
Doctorow is a good fiction writer. Although, he bases his fiction on events that really occurred. I'm thinking of Ragtime for example.
I read The Book of Daniel. He portrays the government's case against the Rosenbergs' as weaker than it really was. The evidence presented against them in court might have been stronger, but it was convincing. I covered it in a prior post.
If you want to read a good book about the Rosenbergs' trial I will recommend an old one. You may have trouble finding it, but you can look. I would suggest The Implosion Conspiracy by Louis Nizer. Nizer was a skilled trial lawyer who had nothing to do with the Rosenberg case. He undertook to objectively review the trial based on the court record. He concluded that the evidence proved that the Rosenbergs' were guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Nizer, like I though, had issues with the death penalty in the case. We felt the country would have been better served by imposition of a very long prison sentence instead. I will say though that I see few crimes as serious as the crime of committing espionage. While I don't agree with it, I understand why this couple received death sentences for their actions.
I saw the movie back in 1983. I was in 7th grade. I liked it at the time but after getting older and reading more resources and the Venona project you realize the movie is full of b.s. They were guilty as hell and the government knew it. Why didn't they plead guilty and get 10 to 15 years for their children is beyond me. They doubled down on arrogance and the government called their bluff. I feel sad for the children above all, they had to pay for the crimes and arrogance of their parents. I guess the Soviet Union and Stalin were above the children and country.
Klaus Fuchs and Harry Gold and many others admitted their crimes and they didn't get the death penalty. Fuchs did 9 years and Gold did 15 years and died of old age.
if We were at peace time they wouldn't get the death penalty but after WW 2 and the height of the Cold War and what was at stake and their arrogance and double downing on lies and testing the U.S., the government called their bluff and made an example of the 2. From 1941 to 1952, We lost a lot of Americans and the Cold War was at its height. The U.S. government knew it had a huge problem of spies in the country and they had to deal with it without looking soft or weak and sadly the Rosenberg were dying for them to be made an example and call worldwide attention.
I wouldn't support it now but at the time and what was at stake, I have no problem especially when they forced the government's hand.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 10-27-2022 at 03:17 PM..
I haven't read Doctorow's "The Book of Daniel" in 50 years. Would that still be a useful backdrop to reflect those times, for the modern reader?
It hasn't been that long for me. There was another novel which dealt with the thought processes of the trial judge. And, of course, there is "Angels in America" on the case and Roy Cohn's part in the prosecution.
Last edited by Manigault; 10-28-2022 at 08:27 AM..
I saw the movie back in 1983. I was in 7th grade. I liked it at the time but after getting older and reading more resources and the Venona project you realize the movie is full of b.s. They were guilty as hell and the government knew it. Why didn't they plead guilty and get 10 to 15 years for their children is beyond me. They doubled down on arrogance and the government called their bluff. I feel sad for the children above all, they had to pay for the crimes and arrogance of their parents. I guess the Soviet Union and Stalin were above the children and country.
Klaus Fuchs and Harry Gold and many others admitted their crimes and they didn't get the death penalty. Fuchs did 9 years and Gold did 15 years and died of old age.
if We were at peace time they wouldn't get the death penalty but after WW 2 and the height of the Cold War and what was at stake and their arrogance and double downing on lies and testing the U.S., the government called their bluff and made an example of the 2. From 1941 to 1952, We lost a lot of Americans and the Cold War was at its height. The U.S. government knew it had a huge problem of spies in the country and they had to deal with it without looking soft or weak and sadly the Rosenberg were dying for them to be made an example and call worldwide attention.
I wouldn't support it now but at the time and what was at stake, I have no problem especially when they forced the government's hand.
What the government wanted and did not get out of the Rosenbergs' was not so much a confession, but statements that would have revealed the names other people involved in a conspiracy to commit espionage against the United States. Undoubtedly, there were other people who were doing so that were never discovered. Threatening the Rosenbergs' in this case with the death penalty was more of an investigative technique than it was anything else. The government wanted to know more and the refusal of either Julius or Ethel Rosenberg to talk brought the investigation that started with Fuchs, Gold, and Greenglass to an end.
I've pondered the unwillingness of the Rosenbergs' to cooperate with the government even when they knew it meant they would be executed and their children left orphans. The Rosenbergs' were ideologues that seemed to value some communist ideology more than their own children. That truly is hard for me to imagine.
The reality is that probably up to the very moment of their execution in the electric chair Julius and Ethel could have saved themselves by naming names and assisting the government in its investigation. The director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, James Bennett, was given the assignment of remaining at Sing Sing Prison up to the time they were executed in hopes such a statement would be given. Bennett attempted to talk to the Rosenbergs' while they were on the death row and they made it clear they had nothing to talk to him about.
What does occur to me is that once they were dead the possibility of them talking in the future had been foreclosed. If they had been given life in prison perhaps there is a greater likelihood that they would have talked at some point. I suppose that is why I felt executing them was not a good idea.
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