White Settlers vs. Indians (general, Mexican, 70's, origin)
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If Old Rain in the Face said such a thing he was probably telling the Americans what he figured they wanted to hear, it wasn't unusual for Indians to do so.
Figured that out, did you?
In all seriousness, this was a pretty common thing -- if the "White-eyes" (pardon me) don't want to hear the truth, then just tell 'em what they want to hear. This isn't a condemnation of the NDNs, but of the Whites' narrow-minded view of things. I mean, after all, what could an ignorant savage possibly know that a white man didn't...?
In all seriousness, this was a pretty common thing -- if the "White-eyes" (pardon me) don't want to hear the truth, then just tell 'em what they want to hear.
That was my philosophy on the job; "Tell 'em what they want to hear and do what you have to do".
Actually, the Indians that were breaking the law by living off reservation were classified as "hostiles".
Not the law; the treaty. There is a difference. Yup, they were pretty hostile to the Great White Father (GWF). Now go back and find why they were off the reservation in the first place.
For example, if we are talking the Sioux and Arapahoe (and to some extent the Cheyenne) in the mid-1870s, they were off the reservation because the GWF unilaterally abrogated the Second Fort Laramie Treaty that was executed in 1868. In 1874, only six years after it was signed, the GWF detailed George Armstrong Custer to lead an expedition of miners and surveyors into the Black Hills - extremely sacred lands that the treaty set aside for the Indians "for as long as grass grows and water flows" - in search of gold. And, of course, they found it.
Actually, though the Sioux, et al, were off the "reservation" itself, they were ON lands that were permanently set aside for them by said treaty -- the Powder River Country. The Little Bighorn River, known to the NDN's as the Greasy Grass, is unequivocally within the Powder River Country. We all know what happened at the Little Bighorn.
Did you notice that I wrote "the SECOND Fort Laramie Treaty?" There was a previous Fort Laramie Treaty, in 1851, with the Cheyenne, Sioux, Arapaho, Crow, Shoshone, Assiniboine, Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara nations. And, of course, the GWF also unilaterally abrogated this treaty in the quest for gold.
But of course, most American schools don't teach this side of American history, do they?
Look it up; it's all true.
-- Nighteyes
Last edited by Nighteyes; 10-10-2011 at 10:55 AM..
The Black Hills Expedition of 1874 orders were to find a suitable site for a fort. Custer's thousand man force included President's Grant eldest son, three newspaper reporters, and two miners. After several weeks of exploring the beautiful area, gold was discovered, "right from the grass roots". Over the next hundred years, more gold would be extracted from a single mine in the Black Hills than any other mine in the continental United States. Approximately one billion dollars.
Couple this with the U.S. financial collapse of 1873, Grant needed a windfall similar to the one provided the California gold in 1848.
The Sioux were notified to report to a reservation by January 1876 or be considered at war with the United States. When Sitting Bull did not respond to the summons, it then became the army's responsibility to bring in the hostiles.
Sitting Bull may have realized that when he visited Washington D.C. in 1875 that it would be folly to resist the American imperialism.
Going off reservation may have been more for food since Grant's secretary of war, William Belknap had resigned, although he was impeached the next day, for selling Agency tradership appointments. Winter was coming and the promised food supplies had not arrived. Indian religious practice of the Ghost Dance was also a reason for leaving the reservation.
If the Agency spent the $360 per day it paid the riverboat captain of the Far West for food and ammunition for the 7Th Cavalry, the Treaty would not have been broken. In my opinion.
The Black Hills Expedition of 1874 orders were to find a suitable site for a fort. Custer's thousand man force included President's Grant eldest son, three newspaper reporters, and two miners. After several weeks of exploring the beautiful area, gold was discovered, "right from the grass roots".
Close, but no cigar. Gold had ALREADY been found by prospectors who went into the Black Hills in violation/defiance of the 1868 Fort Laramie Treaty. Yes, the "official" mission was to find a suitable site for a fort -- TO PROTECT THE MINERS WHO WERE THERE IN VIOLATION OF THE TREATY. Custer's presence and mission, once again, were direct violations of the 1868 Fort Laramie Treaty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrtx
The Sioux were notified to report to a reservation by January 1876 or be considered at war with the United States. When Sitting Bull did not respond to the summons, it then became the army's responsibility to bring in the hostiles.
And how, pray tell, does one square this with the treaty terms that unequivocally stated the Black Hills belonged to the Sioux and Arapahoe "for as long as grass grows and water flows"? And by the way, Sitting Bull and his forces and allies were in the Powder River Country, which the same treaty granted to them for hunting and etc. and permanently closed the area (including the Little Bighorn) to whites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrtx
Going off reservation may have been more for food...
Yep. They went into the Powder River Country, permanently ceded to them for hunting and similar purposes by the 1868 Treaty. Need I say it again? The Little Bighorn, and we all know what happened there, is squarely within the Powder River Country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrtx
Indian religious practice of the Ghost Dance was also a reason for leaving the reservation.
Once again, you have misunderstood and/or misrepresented the facts, thereby overlooking or negating the purpose of the Ghost Dance. In a vision, a Paiute known as Wovoka received the instructions for the Ghost Dance, a variation of the Circle Dance practiced by a majority of American Indian Nations. It was not a war dance, but a peace dance.
There was a previous Fort Laramie Treaty, in 1851, with the Cheyenne, Sioux, Arapaho, Crow, Shoshone, Assiniboine, Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara nations.
Also attending were the Gros Ventres. Invited, but refusing to attend, were the Pawnees, Kiowas, and Comanches. The Pawnees declined because of their deep hatred for the Sioux. The Kiowas and Comanches told Tom "Broken Hand" Fitzpatrick that they could not afford to attend because they had "too many horses and mules to risk among such notorious horse thieves as the Sioux and Crows."
The Kiowas and Comanches told Tom "Broken Hand" Fitzpatrick that they could not afford to attend because they had "too many horses and mules to risk among such notorious horse thieves as the Sioux and Crows."
High praise coming from the Kiowa and Comanche.
I've read the Kiowa once lived in the Black Hills and were driven out by the Sioux who were in turn being driven out of the Lakes Country by the Chippewas; 18th and 19th Century Domino Theory. Is that true?
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