Operation Torch We fought the French? (Mexico, 1950's, state, empire)

[Leovigildo]

For those of you that don't know it, French were treasoned by their politicians, Renault and Daladier, and they had the disgrace of voting the Popular Front, Blum, an inept that tried to imitate the Spanish Popular Front, that's why French middle classes were totally scared and many (many) welcomed Germans and Petain and Larras.

Had the French had realistic politicians, they could have stopped the Germans.

Just another thing, De Gaulle invented the BLITZKRIEG concept, copied by Rundstet.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

For those of you that don't know it, French were treasoned by their politicians, Renault and Daladier, and they had the disgrace of voting the Popular Front, Blum, an inept that tried to imitate the Spanish Popular Front, that's why French middle classes were totally scared and many (many) welcomed Germans and Petain and Larras.

Had the French had realistic politicians, they could have stopped the Germans.

Just another thing, De Gaulle invented the BLITZKRIEG concept, copied by Rundstet.

I guess Le Generalle Grande failed to copyright the concept.

[Leovigildo]

He wrote the concept in a military magazine and nobody paid attention, except Rundstet, Guderian, etc.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

For those of you that don't know it, French were treasoned by their politicians, Renault and Daladier, and they had the disgrace of voting the Popular Front, Blum, an inept that tried to imitate the Spanish Popular Front, that's why French middle classes were totally scared and many (many) welcomed Germans and Petain and Larras.

Had the French had realistic politicians, they could have stopped the Germans.

Just another thing, De Gaulle invented the BLITZKRIEG concept, copied by Rundstet.

That's not the case. The progenitors of Blitzkrieg were, among others, J.F.C Fuller, Heinz Guderian, Oswald Lutz, J.E.B. Estienne and Mikhail Tukhachevsky, and the theory was already being kicked around as early as 1917 by the British. In France, older generals such as Petain, suppressed the doctrine and, of course, Stalin murder Tukhachevsky and a large portion of his officer corps. Even the Germans adopted Blitzkrieg almost by accident, and only because Rundstedt managed to sell the doctrine to Hitler personally.

[Moth]

Nonetheless and to his credit, De Gaulle was an innovative military thinker and the French would have done well to listen to him.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by Moth

Nonetheless and to his credit, De Gaulle was an innovative military thinker and the French would have done well to listen to him.

Oh, I agree. But De Gaulle was idling in a prison camp while British and German tacticians were already beginning to forward the beginnings of the concept towards the end of World War II. To say that De Gaulle invented Blitzkrieg just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[Leovigildo]

I'll try to find the info in English.


Las primeras publicaciones del Reichswehr contenían muchos artículos traducidos procedentes de los países aliados, aunque cuanto mas diferían las líneas doctrinales, menos interés recibían por parte del estado mayor alemán. Los avances técnicos de los países extranjeros fueron, sin embargo, vigilados y utilizados en parte por la Oficina de Armamento. En general, las doctrinas externas tuvieron poca influencia,[4] con tres posibles excepciones: el francés Charles de Gaulle y los británicos J.F.C. Fuller y Basil Liddell Hart.
De Gaulle, que por entonces era coronel en el ejército francés, era un conocido defensor de la concentración de blindados y aviones, opinión menospreciada por su alto mando, pero que algunos afirman que influenció a Heinz Guderian. En 1934 De Gaulle había escrito en su libro L'armée de metier unas teorías donde defendía el uso combinado de tanques e infantería, en colaboración con la aviación. Los mandos superiores del ejército francés rechazaron tales ideas, pero muchos extractos del texto de De Gaulle fueron citados literalmente como teoría útil para los manuales militares alemanes de esa época

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

I'll try to find the info in English.


Las primeras publicaciones del Reichswehr contenían muchos artículos traducidos procedentes de los países aliados, aunque cuanto mas diferían las líneas doctrinales, menos interés recibían por parte del estado mayor alemán. Los avances técnicos de los países extranjeros fueron, sin embargo, vigilados y utilizados en parte por la Oficina de Armamento. En general, las doctrinas externas tuvieron poca influencia,[4] con tres posibles excepciones: el francés Charles de Gaulle y los británicos J.F.C. Fuller y Basil Liddell Hart.
De Gaulle, que por entonces era coronel en el ejército francés, era un conocido defensor de la concentración de blindados y aviones, opinión menospreciada por su alto mando, pero que algunos afirman que influenció a Heinz Guderian. En 1934 De Gaulle había escrito en su libro L'armée de metier unas teorías donde defendía el uso combinado de tanques e infantería, en colaboración con la aviación. Los mandos superiores del ejército francés rechazaron tales ideas, pero muchos extractos del texto de De Gaulle fueron citados literalmente como teoría útil para los manuales militares alemanes de esa época

I don't read Spanish particularly well, but I do see the year 1934 in the text, along with the citation of the article by De Gaulle. Really, by that time, the Blitzkrieg was well-advanced from a theoretical standpoint, given its first real application was by the British at Cambrai in 1917. The British followed up with articles on mechanized armies as early as 1921. In fact Fuller was asked to lead an experimental brigade in the mid-20s based on the concept of Blitzkrieg, but he declined.

[WIHS2006]

Wasent De Gaulle actually a colonel in 1940? I read somewhere that he commanded an armored regiment that made one of the few sucessful counterattacks against the Germans.

[Leovigildo]

Yes, he did but Guderian (I think) reppealed him.
There were French fighting against Americans along with Germans in D-Day. (The new book about D-DAY cast some light into this, his author is Beevy or something similar).
Toulon....
Well, many French (Division Charlemagne, I recall) enrolled to fight alongside with Germans against the USSR (along with Legión Azul).
Well, there's a lot of hypocresy, but most French (middle class, bourgeois) were OK with Germans, they hated their sacking and fines, but they did believe it was better that Front Populaire (Communists and Socialists).