Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I used to write on this topic in the context of Eastern Europe (my answer was essentially no) but this is directed towards the one major "communist" country left - China. I know little in honesty about the Chinese Communist party - so I am really just raising a question, not expressing an opinion.
China has obviously moved toowards a market based system. Yet formally it remains a communist society. My guess is that this is a legal fiction, that communist ideal are abandoned and communism simply used as a symbolic way of passing on power to party members. But I don't know this and wonder if anyone here knows how communism has been reconciled with the new economy in China which is certainly not a traditional communist one.
I don't see why there could not be a blend. For example, a large number of essential industries continue to function under direct control of the government, but the distribution of discretionary consumer goods is carried out by the private sector.
This would not be a "communist country being capitalist", but rather a country making judgments about which parts of its economy need to be under the control of the central planners, for the assurance of mutual good of all, and which can be turned over to the private sector for people to consume or not consume according to their personal tastes.
I think both in practice and in theory such a mixed economy is difficult. Capitalist and control economices rely on different assumptions, methods of exchange, and economic functions that don't mesh well. I know efforts to employ them in Eastern Europe for example in the seventies failed badly because the public and private firms were essentially incompatiable. The assumptions and structures that supported communist firms could not support capitalist ones.
An excellent example of this was the collapse of market reforms introduced into Poland in the seventies which paved the way for solidarity's rise.
I used to write on this topic in the context of Eastern Europe (my answer was essentially no) but this is directed towards the one major "communist" country left - China. I know little in honesty about the Chinese Communist party - so I am really just raising a question, not expressing an opinion.
China has obviously moved toowards a market based system. Yet formally it remains a communist society. My guess is that this is a legal fiction, that communist ideal are abandoned and communism simply used as a symbolic way of passing on power to party members.
Your guess is correct.
Many parties initially based on an ideology and specific ideals become essentially establishment parties and shedding those ideals except for purely symbolic purposes. The Chinese Communist Party is one prominent example ; the Mexican PRI, the Argentine Justicialist Party, and the various Ba'ath Parties are others. This does not just apply to parties in dictatorships (although the Justicialists hold power in Argentina right now, which is certainly a democracy, and the PRI continues to exist as an opposition party in Mexico - not sure if there is a Ba'ath Party in Lebanon, the only real Arab democracy in the Middle East) ; one could say much the same thing about the Gaullists in France or even the British Labour Party or the US Democratic and Republican parties.
Quote:
But I don't know this and wonder if anyone here knows how communism has been reconciled with the new economy in China which is certainly not a traditional communist one.
I would best describe the Chinese system as "state capitalist", e.g. along the model of 19th century France, in which the government had more involvement in the economy, rather than 19th century Britain and America which were more oriented towards laissez-faire at least in theory if not always in practice.
Maybe some day, human beings will advance to the point at which they no longer feel compelled to polarize into extreme opposite philosophical camps and be swept up by their respective indoctrinators and refuse to accept each other's ideas on their own merits.
Maybe some day, human beings will advance to the point at which they no longer feel compelled to polarize into extreme opposite philosophical camps and be swept up by their respective indoctrinators and refuse to accept each other's ideas on their own merits.
Eh, sorry, I think that's less likely than being attacked by the aliens in "Mars Attacks".
China is communist in name only, though it is still authoritarian. Some times I think we need a tad bit of authoritarianism in the US to get things done (like building bridges, roads, rails, new power plants) that China is doing. China needs to loosen up a bit, and we need to tighten up a bit.
Maybe some day, human beings will advance to the point at which they no longer feel compelled to polarize into extreme opposite philosophical camps and be swept up by their respective indoctrinators and refuse to accept each other's ideas on their own merits.
Amen. What's more, I don't believe purist versions of capitalism can exist on the ground without burning themselves up in short order. Capitalism has a considerable amount of flexibility to it, and the ground it's standing on must be abided no matter which political ideology is ruling the day.
I used to write on this topic in the context of Eastern Europe (my answer was essentially no) but this is directed towards the one major "communist" country left - China. I know little in honesty about the Chinese Communist party - so I am really just raising a question, not expressing an opinion.
China has obviously moved toowards a market based system. Yet formally it remains a communist society. My guess is that this is a legal fiction, that communist ideal are abandoned and communism simply used as a symbolic way of passing on power to party members. But I don't know this and wonder if anyone here knows how communism has been reconciled with the new economy in China which is certainly not a traditional communist one.
I had this very conversation with my friend who grew up there, worked here for a while and is now back there. Basically they have one party rule and still cling to communism only because the people with power in the party are able to take care of friends and family. Money, power, influence. It's not really even communism so much as one party rule.
If you are familiar with Chicago at all, that would be the perfect example. It's "democratic" but most of the decisions are made by the powers that be behind doors, lots of back room deals and one party rule.
China is just Chicago on a large scale. Capitalistic, mono-party rule, lots of nepotism, corruption and the rank and file people pretty much have no control and can't vote people out.
I had this very conversation with my friend who grew up there, worked here for a while and is now back there. Basically they have one party rule and still cling to communism only because the people with power in the party are able to take care of friends and family. Money, power, influence. It's not really even communism so much as one party rule.
If you are familiar with Chicago at all, that would be the perfect example. It's "democratic" but most of the decisions are made by the powers that be behind doors, lots of back room deals and one party rule.
China is just Chicago on a large scale. Capitalistic, mono-party rule, lots of nepotism, corruption and the rank and file people pretty much have no control and can't vote people out.
Pretty much like Mexico in the bad old days of the PRI too. Or for that matter that's how the city of Paris was run when Chirac was mayor (for almost 25 years before he became French President).
Pretty much like Mexico in the bad old days of the PRI too. Or for that matter that's how the city of Paris was run when Chirac was mayor (for almost 25 years before he became French President).
Good points, paper democracy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
