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So his real sin is not having a bank of lawyers on staff or retainer, like Six Flags, Disney, and others? It sometimes isn't about codes and code compliance, but about intimidation and protecting turf.
For years around here there was a popular seasonal "haunted house" Halloween attraction, with proceeds going to charity. About three years ago, I saw them doing the usual prep over a little more than a month. The DAY before they were supposed to open, a state fire marshal (from outside of the county) showed up, did a surprise inspection and shut them down. The following day a new for profit "haunted house" attraction opened the next town over. Coinky-dink? I think not.
Fortunately, the group with the original haunted house were able to scramble and move to a different location and open a "haunted hospital" the following week.
I don't even want to know what connections were involved with that fire marshal.
I would suggest the YOU need codes, but some of us do just fine without them.
Exactly, we just did a recent garage addition and it cost me $650 for the inspector. Didn't need him and didn't want him. It's kind of funny becsue he shows up and there is lot of rebar where it didn't have to be for the foundation, "you didn't have to do that". The contractor tells him him he knows but I specified it.
They passed new construction standards here in PA a few years back. One of the new regulations was you couldn't install a water heater. You needed to have it done professionally. Really?
The other one was they were going to require sprinklers in any new house, I wonder who's brother owned the Sprinkler company? In any event I've been the victim of house fire and I still wouldn't support it. The argument is this is going to save lives and property damage which it will but in reality it's just a gift to the construction industry and the insurance industry. At some point in time you have diminishing returns and things get impractical, it doesn't matter if it's the safest house in the world if no one can afford to build it.
Both never passed or were repealed, I forget which.
Harry you mentioned the rails on the porch, my Brother went to purchase a house and they required the previous homeowner to install rails. My Brother didn't want them becsue he was going to tear it all out anyway but the sale couldn't go through without those rails.....
You all scream bloody murder at the imposition of any rules for building and safety...
...But as soon as an accident happens,
- 2nd story deck at a home collapses and injures a bunch of people having a party.
- Fire kills entire family including 3 small kids.
- Sky bridge at hotel collapses and kills 14 people.
- Night club fire kills 30 people.
- etc.
...YOU demand new laws to prevent these things from happening again!
(Those are building codes you are demanding...)
You all scream bloody murder at the imposition of any rules for building and safety...
...But as soon as an accident happens,
- 2nd story deck at a home collapses and injures a bunch of people having a party.
- Fire kills entire family including 3 small kids.
- Sky bridge at hotel collapses and kills 14 people.
- Night club fire kills 30 people.
- etc.
...YOU demand new laws to prevent these things from happening again!
(Those are building codes you are demanding...)
Uhhh... you MIGHT consider that there could be different GROUPS of people with different priorities. I know that might be a radical concept to you, but if you think Republican vs. Democrat or Muslim compared to Christian, you might see that people can have differing opinions.
Of the ones you mentioned, the sky bridge is about the only one not adequately covered by laws already, and that one was a technical/construction error. There are people who belong in padded rooms as the only way to keep them safe. I know, I used to care for them. I was very thankful to have the keys to get out at the end of the shift.
Exactly, we just did a recent garage addition and it cost me $650 for the inspector. Didn't need him and didn't want him. It's kind of funny becsue he shows up and there is lot of rebar where it didn't have to be for the foundation, "you didn't have to do that". The contractor tells him him he knows but I specified it.
You did not pay $650 for the inspector. You DID pay $650 for the local jurisdiction having authority to approve what you built meet a minimum standard that increased the value of your home. The person you meet at the front desk, the person who checked your plans for compliance, the inspector whom was your onsite contact, and the building official who directs this organization.
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They passed new construction standards here in PA a few years back. One of the new regulations was you couldn't install a water heater. You needed to have it done professionally. Really?
What is said definition of professional? Testing for a contractors license doesn't make a professional. Did you lobby against this in any form, or just complain once it was done?
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The other one was they were going to require sprinklers in any new house, I wonder who's brother owned the Sprinkler company? In any event I've been the victim of house fire and I still wouldn't support it. The argument is this is going to save lives and property damage which it will but in reality it's just a gift to the construction industry and the insurance industry. At some point in time you have diminishing returns and things get impractical, it doesn't matter if it's the safest house in the world if no one can afford to build it.
Both never passed or were repealed, I forget which.
This issue goes way back to when the ICC was competing with the NFPA to become the new standard. The NFPA (national fire protection association) was the first to introduce this, and part of the final agreement to settle their differences. NFPA handles the fire code, and NEC (national electric code), and more publications I can't recall. So it was not the brother of a sprinkler company, but rather a very well known organization. When you tell a politician you're going to save lives they go crazy over this type of stuff. Honestly, I thought this made it into the 2007 ICC version.
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Harry you mentioned the rails on the porch, my Brother went to purchase a house and they required the previous homeowner to install rails. My Brother didn't want them becsue he was going to tear it all out anyway but the sale couldn't go through without those rails.....
This is in the code to save you from getting sued by your drunk brother inlaw! Just kidding.
Not having code would be like not have any laws at all. Chaos and anarchy would be the law of the day. Are their abuses? As with anything that has human interaction there always will be abuses. However, I've seen much more good come from the code than abuse. Hurricane clips, and tying down roof structures. The Northridge earthquake brought about steel beam vs column connection changes not relying on bolts alone. I'm thankful that we can learn from crisis, and think about what can be done better. Why do we continue to build wood framed house in tornado country? I will always support people working together for a common cause. If Eustace wants to build to a lesser standard that's fine, but don't invite the public in and ask for permission to do it!
You did not pay $650 for the inspector. You DID pay $650 for the local jurisdiction having authority to approve what you built meet a minimum standard that increased the value of your home. The person you meet at the front desk, the person who checked your plans for compliance, the inspector whom was your onsite contact, and the building official who directs this organization.
You're missing the point, I didn't need or want him here. The guy across the street might need those services but I don't. Because some nitwit needs to be protected from themselves I suffer financially.
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but rather a very well known organization.
It's the Brother that belongs to the organization. Professionals from any industry try to build a wall around their business to keep others out. The reason we have such a complex tax code is because there is billion dollar industry built around it. The auctioneers in my state once tried to have people selling stuff on Ebay turned into criminals, that is no joke.
Last edited by thecoalman; 06-07-2013 at 01:25 PM..
I got some more examples, we recently had a flood in my area so the permit guy hit the jackpot becsue he gets a percentage. While on the topic can you say conflict of interest? As the cost of the job increases so does his compensation. In any event he either was incompetent or committed fraud. He was isnsiting everyone had to put in these real expensive receptacles and here my brother finds out it wasn't required but this was after hundreds of people already installed them.
That's another thing, these codes should be public. You shouldn't have to cut off your left arm to get a copy.
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A coal boiler manufacturer here in PA makes two models, they are absolutely identical except for one thing. One has a ASME stamp and cost $2K more. You don't need a stamped boiler for residential construction here in PA but just over the border in Mass. you're going to pay $2K more for that unit becuse they do require it.
You may suggest we need codes for boilers yet there is another manufacturer that has been making units without stamps for 50 years without any issues.
With all the latest happenings with the UN, the situations in the Mideast, and the recent election its amazing the "crap" that can get shuffled through (just like the antics that take place on Capital Hill)-
Here's the latest on Agenda 21 (starting at paragraph 8):
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