Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sir, since you say it's only money, look up natural gas and see how much money you save each month compared to electric. Look at the savings with natural gas. Have you ever used gas heat or just saying this because of the money involved. Furthermore; the gas heat is 20-30 degrees warmer than the semi-warm electric heat air blowing. If I had known what was going on, I never would have let them put in the air handler instead of a gas furnace.
It sounds like you have what you need to figure out your "payout" calculation. If it's an acceptable time frame, go for it. If it isn't, those radiant heaters from Costco are less than $30 each.
After research, I even called Lennox directly). I got a reasonable quote for $3000.00 for my idea to switch over to natural gas on the second and third floor. They said they would switch the air handler for a Lennox gas furnace like the one I already have that heats the first floor in zone 1.
I found a cost comparison and found out my electric rate for heat and my rate for gas therms and plugged the numbers in to the formula. You can see how much cheaper natural gas is in my area (Gas is 3 times cheaper than electric heat!!)
The Cost of Heat
Electric vs Fuels - Comparison Result
My Electric rate (per kilowatt-hour) = 0.1460 Cost of heat (per 100,000 BTU) = 4.28
My Natural gas cost per therm = 1.13
Burner efficiency factor = 80% Cost of heat (per 100,000 BTU) = 1.41
This cost comparison addresses fuel costs only. Capital investment in wiring, burners, piping, tanks, etc. should be taken into account when deciding which fuel type to install or use. back print this page
Web host: maxmcarter.com
After talking again to Lennox, and a local Heating & Cooling company, I have decided to wait, and just raise my heat pump thermostat for the second / third floors a degree or 2 and it will be warmer. I Just can't justify $3000.00 right now for replacing brand new equipment. I can see it will save me money monthly , but will take 10 years or more to make up the difference. I have to give the heat pump a chance , and even Lennox told me the heat pump can hold a room temperature very well to the temperature you want it. I was told by the local Heating & Cooling company , I have an ideal setup now in my house living in the southeast without too many nights below freezing. The reviews for the Lennox heat pump I have had very good reviews.
I was even able to see about how much I would save monthly (about $60.00). This would take approximately just over 4 years to regain $3000.00 dollars back....I still wish I would have just asked for gas throughout up front in the new house, but for now I will hold off on changing the system. Thanks for all the replies.
Thanks for all the replies.
Last edited by Serenity2019; 12-05-2013 at 12:32 PM..
I got a reasonable quote for $3000.00 for my idea to switch over to natural gas
(equipment) on the second and third floor. ... I can see it will save me money monthly,
but will take 10 years or more to make up the difference.
Did that include the $$ quote for running the gas pipe up to the attic?
Did anyone ask about total BTu capacity of your gas service?
Did that include the $$ quote for running the gas pipe up to the attic?
Did anyone ask about total BTu capacity of your gas service?
The gas pipe already runs up to the attic. So, the estimate includes that. The current lennox gas furnace I have is in the attic, and it heats the first floor (zone 1). All my hvac equipment is in the attic already, with 2 units outside - a heat pump and an air conditioner. Don't know anything about the total BTU capacity of the gas service, but it is state wide gas company in South Carolina.
The problem is the SIZE of the pipe-
It's probably not large enough to handle both units.
They would install another line tapping into the existing gas line, the same heating and cooling company that orginally installed the HVAC equipment in my new home, came back out to give me an estimate for another gas furnace...
They would install:
(1) 2 ton Lennox Gas Furnace and Coil
Install new zone board
Install 2 new thermostats
Install gas line (tap into existing line)
Install Flue pipe
Using existing condenser
Furnaces "use" a certain amount (volume) of gas. That amount can be restricted by the size of the pipe- add another furnace to that same line and they both could be under-supplied resulting in poor or no performance.
Furnaces "use" a certain amount (volume) of gas. That amount can be restricted by the size of the pipe- add another furnace to that same line and they both could be under-supplied resulting in poor or no performance.
Sir, I am not a HVAC tech only saying what the crew that came out said. They said they would tap into the existing gas line, and nothing about any worries about volume of gas...
definitely a waste of money so it's probably good to decided not to switch. It comes down to a personal "preference." In the future, I recommend someone like you utilizing a hybrid unit that operates as a heat pump down to a certain outdoor enthalpy and then can utilize gas heating below that.
Also, the electric vs gas "cost" up above in this thread seems like the wrong data to start with. I also live in SC and there are no way your rates in Charleston are drastically different enough to represent the costs you showed. A heat pump is more efficient than straight electric strip heating but costs in comparison to natural gas are typically fairly close. Thus, if you look purely at "electric" costs and don't understand how a heat pump works, it APPEARS that natural gas heat is a lot "cheaper" than a heat pump when in reality it may not be. This makes me think you chose "electric" as your heat source and not "heat pump" based on whatever calculator you were using. It would just be extreme to see any sort of 300% cost difference between a decent heat pump and a natural gas furnace. Natural gas furnace and pure "electric" heating, then sure, but not a heat pump.
In reality, without knowing anything more about your house than what you listed in this thread, I would estimate that the cost differential for you to heat those areas with natural gas versus the heat pumps might save you 10-20%. Even on the extreme side, if you had a very poor efficiency heat pump and bought a very high AFUE gas furnace (which should not be the case comparing a new heat pump to a new furnace) you MAY see upwards of 50% savings. In reality, you're probably more in the 10-20% range. And remember costs for things like natural gas or electric can fluctuate. 5 years from now, Natural gas could cost a lot more..you just never know.
I do see that you tried to take that payback into account up above (which is the right approach), but if you were using the 300% difference in your calculation, you were impacting the payback period. Replacing a NEW heat pump with a NEW natural gas furnace would typically have a payback that makes no sense. You made the right call unless you had money to burn. By the way, heat pumps are excellent choices for SC in my professional opinion.
Last edited by Sunbather; 12-10-2013 at 01:45 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
