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Old 01-10-2016, 10:17 AM
 
23,603 posts, read 70,446,439 times
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Send your photos to the proper authorities, cc an attorney, the insurance company and mayor. Diddling around here won't get anything accomplished. Pressure on the inspector to do a proper job will. There is no way that 3 prong without a ground is to code.
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Old 01-10-2016, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
8,072 posts, read 8,374,563 times
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But, from experience, is very common in older apartments in Seattle.
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Old 01-10-2016, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek, GA
17,475 posts, read 66,084,834 times
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I can assure you there are a lot of "wrongs" with the electrical. At the same time, I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that this is the "inspected work". It could be quite possible that the receptacles as well as the breakers were changed by someone other than the electrician that did the work

Also, when these types of rehab projects are done, they are usually not inspected by the AHJ; that usually will be done by an authorized engineering firm. And like the AHJ's their time is limited and things get over-looked; and since most work is done by the lowest bid contractor, shortcuts/cover ups are bound to be rampant.

You may want to lineup another place to live BEFORE you blow-the-wistle!
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:08 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,692,777 times
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See this all the time...

Older home and someone decides to make pretty the outlets or they have grounded plugs that don't "Fit"

The old style no grounded outlets cost at least double of their grounded counterparts because they can...

The only exception where I am is a GFCI can be installed and not be grounded... the protection offered by the GFCI outweighs not having a ground... at least this is code here.

I'm always changing back tenant replaced outlets to non grounded two prong...

My parents home was built in 1958 and had a ground run to all the metal boxes... I bought a package of pigtails to connect the box to the new grounded receptacles in the kitchen...
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:36 PM
 
418 posts, read 728,437 times
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As far as I know, you're right, a non-grounded outlet with a three prong outlet has to be connected to a GFCI and labeled that's it's not grounded. The outlets generally come with those stickers in the box.

before I sold my house, I had some electrical work done on my knob and tube first floor and they added the stickers. But they weren't on the outlets they should have been on before. I've never been in a house where I've seen them. I'm sure they fall off or people take them off (or never put them on).
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,555,288 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Code or not (that varies everywhere, there is no code for residential homes where I live) none of what you have going on sounds safe. Too much power flowing through the old knob and tube wiring, and if an appliance needs a ground and gets plugged into an ungrounded three prong outlet, well, that's not good.
"Too much power"?

Look, the ground is there to provide a path for fault current to go and hopefully cause a breaker to trip, or fuse to burn. Most appliances these days are double insulated and don't need a ground. Some appliances have metal components that could become energized and cause injury, and this is usually when you'll have a 3 prong plug on the appliance, that allows that current to find earth (assuming your panel has proper groundING) and hopefully avoid injury.

The number of prongs is not indicative of how much current an appliance does, or does not draw. You could have a 2 prong device that draws 13 amps, and a 3 prong device that draws .5 amps.

Also, the 6-32 screws count as a bond between the receptacle and the metal box. You DO NOT NEED a grounding pigtail for a proper bond. But this wouldn't matter anyway if there is no grounding connection going back to your panel.

As others have said, receptacles can be protected by a GFCI receptacle upstream.
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:53 PM
 
Location: CT
3,440 posts, read 2,529,279 times
Reputation: 4639
Yeah, most posters have it right, you are not allowed to but a grounded outlet in an ungrounded box, by code. GFI has to be grounded to work right, according to NEC code, any receptacle in kitchens and bathrooms of commercial installations, are supposed to be GFI protected. Now, is an apartment building a commercial situation? As you have been advised, contact your local authority. As far as knob&tube goes, not necessarily dangerous, they typically used 12 gauge wire that is safe to 20 amp service, and because it's normally spaced apart a few inches it will run cooler than modern 12-2 cable. The danger of the old wiring was overloading circuits, back in the day it wasn't built for A/C units, heaters, modern appliances in every room, so did they redistribute the circuit load? That looks like a lot of big breakers, what's the main rated at?

Just found this (NEC code book)

Per 210.8(A)(6), GFCI protection is required for all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles that serve kitchen countertop surfaces in a dwelling unit (Fig. 1 on page 54). GFCI protection is not required for receptacles serving appliances like dishwashers, or convenience receptacles that do not supply countertop surfaces. Receptacles installed within 6 ft of the outside edge of a wet bar sink must also be GFCI-protected [210.8(A)(7)]. However, GFCI protection is not required for receptacles not intended to serve wet bar countertop surfaces, such as refrigerators, ice makers, water heaters, or convenience receptacles that do not supply counter-top surfaces.
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Old 01-10-2016, 04:33 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,692,777 times
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What if you come across a non-grounding type receptacle or an old 2-wire NM cable without a ground?

These receptacles can be replaced with one of the following:

Another non-grounding type receptacle.

A GFCI-receptacle, if marked “No Equipment Ground.”

A grounding type receptacle, if GFCI protected and marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground.”

The equipment-grounding conductor plays no part in the operation of a GFCI, so it will provide ground-fault protection even on a 2-wire circuit without an equipment-grounding conductor.


See Sec. 210-7(d)(3)
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Old 01-10-2016, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,555,288 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
The equipment-grounding conductor plays no part in the operation of a GFCI, so it will provide ground-fault protection even on a 2-wire circuit without an equipment-grounding conductor.

See Sec. 210-7(d)(3)
This is how I understood it to be. And this is how I wired my kitchen. I got an old 60amp culter hammer XO panel. Didn't feel like upgrading it, especially after I eliminated a lot of load thanks to LED lighting. Did a bit of consolidating and I'm drawing less than 1 amp with all my kitchen lights.
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Old 01-10-2016, 05:07 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,507,138 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post
"Too much power"?

Look, the ground is there to provide a path for fault current to go and hopefully cause a breaker to trip, or fuse to burn. Most appliances these days are double insulated and don't need a ground. Some appliances have metal components that could become energized and cause injury, and this is usually when you'll have a 3 prong plug on the appliance, that allows that current to find earth (assuming your panel has proper groundING) and hopefully avoid injury.

The number of prongs is not indicative of how much current an appliance does, or does not draw. You could have a 2 prong device that draws 13 amps, and a 3 prong device that draws .5 amps.

Also, the 6-32 screws count as a bond between the receptacle and the metal box. You DO NOT NEED a grounding pigtail for a proper bond. But this wouldn't matter anyway if there is no grounding connection going back to your panel.

As others have said, receptacles can be protected by a GFCI receptacle upstream.

If you read above that post you'd see I was commenting on their statement of 20 amps with old knob and tube wiring which would be risky if indeed that's what was there, not just the ground issue.
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