Water softener? (heater, sink, appliance, kitchen)

[Grandpa Pipes]

Wife want's a water softener but it must be a no salt model. I know from zip about water softeners so any real user data would be helpful.

[M3 Mitch]

As far as I know, all real resin-bed type softeners use salt - either sodium chloride or you can use "alternatative" potassium chloride. They work by ion exchange, the below link is a decent tutorial:

HowStuffWorks "How does a water softener work?"

You *can* go to a reverse osmosis unit but I think they will cost more for a whole-house model, not certain there is any real advantage.

If DW is worried about adding sodium ions to the drinking water, you can get around that by using an RO unit on just the kitchen sink, and/or going to the potassium chloride salt.

The magnetic, etc. gizmos have not been proven to do anything. There is a lot of anecdotal "evidence" that they do reduce water spotting, but for example in the nuclear industry water purification is done by RO or by ion exchange, as far as I know.

[Okey Dokie]

You can also run it to the hot water only. Use cold (unsoftened) for drinking and cooking, but you'll have soft for the important stuff - showers, laundry, etc.

[Gary Slusser]

Softeners remove hardness etc. from the water, "no salt" items remove nothing from the water, so they aren't softeners. They are supposed to make water act as if it is softened. Jul 2007 I bought a mineral based one, not the electronic wires around the pipe type, to see how that type worked so maybe I could sell them. A lot of people were asking me about them. My Irish Spring suds a bit better and there are some fewer water spots on the shower door and sink but the water is nothing like softened water. So I don't sell them.

Also, the mineral type "no salt softeners", the mineral has a 5 year life and then you replace it and it is very very expensive.

Maybe the wife should know that the added sodium of a softener is probably nowhere near as bad as she may believe it is. The formula used to calculate added sodium from a water softener is; 7.85 mg/l (that's milligrams per liter, roughly a quart) per gpg (grains per gallon) of hardness so, example, 15 gpg compensated hardness (fairly hard water) * 7.85 equals 117.75 mg of added sodium. That's usually less sodium than in a single slice of white bread which is usually 120-160 mg of sodium PER SLICE. You can check food and beverage labels. I'm told a 12 oz bottle of Diet Coke has 30 mg of sodium....

Softening the water going into a water heater, and then adding hard cold water to the soft hot water, makes the water hard, which is not good for clothes, appliances, washing machines etc. and it's a bad idea. To get any benefit from the minerals in hard water, you must drink a lot of water, and too much will make you sick and can actually kill you very quickly. We get our minerals from food, not water.

[Driller1]

Culligan lobbies for its life as water softeners become a drought issue - Los Angeles Times

California thinks softeners are harmful.

[Gary Slusser]

California has been wrong in the past about many things and that's why the state is probably going to go bankrupt fairly soon. NY and MI are close also.

I think everyone should ask themselves if the citizens of CA or other states allow the politicians to ban legal products like water softeners, how long will it be until they are banning something 'you' want to use to make your life better?

Example, about 30 years ago, when banning smoking was first mentioned, I used perfume as an example of something possibly someday being objectionable to someone and possibly the next thing on the list if smoking was allowed to be banned. Just yesterday I heard of the city of Detroit outlawing the wearing of perfume, deodorants, hair spray etc. etc. in offices etc. and here we are with the mention of more legal products (softeners) being banned. Living with hard water problems is very expensive and difficult. And there is no such thing as "alternative" softeners or "no salt" softeners or any viable substitute for ion exchange water softeners.

[M3 Mitch]

Originally Posted by Gary Slusser

Softeners remove hardness etc. from the water, "no salt" items remove nothing from the water, so they aren't softeners. ... My Irish Spring suds a bit better and there are some fewer water spots on the shower door and sink but the water is nothing like softened water. So I don't sell them.


..

That's what's so interesting about the magnets. From a scientific point of view, it's easy enough to say they are BS - they don't work by a well-known principle like RO or ion exchange - but they do seem to work to some extent.

I'm not endorsing them by any stretch, but it is interesting that most "junk science" devices do not work, do not work at all, are BS from soup to nuts. But the water magnets do seem to do something.

[Gary Slusser]

Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
Softeners remove hardness etc. from the water, "no salt" items remove nothing from the water, so they aren't softeners. ... My Irish Spring suds a bit better and there are some fewer water spots on the shower door and sink but the water is nothing like softened water. So I don't sell them. [/quote]

Originally Posted by M3 Mitch

That's what's so interesting about the magnets. From a scientific point of view, it's easy enough to say they are BS - they don't work by a well-known principle like RO or ion exchange - but they do seem to work to some extent.

I'm not endorsing them by any stretch, but it is interesting that most "junk science" devices do not work, do not work at all, are BS from soup to nuts. But the water magnets do seem to do something.

Sorry, magnets and other physical/mechanical water treatment (PWT) devices are not what I was talking about in my comment quoted above.

I was referring to the mineral based products.

Magnets rarely work unless the water is flowing constantly as in closed loop situations and electronic anti scale/descaling devices in residential applications rarely work. And those that do leave a white powdery film all over surfaces where the water is allowed to dry.