Light Rail Progress (Houston, Austin, Fort Worth: tax, vs, authority)

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

Now i can agree on this. The University line can not, and i repeat CAN NOT be constructed in the same way as the Rail Line. The number of accidents was really due to a poorly designed system and traffic is already a nightmare between the Galleria and Montrose. A blind person can see that constructing the University Line at grade is a recipe for disaster. I wish we could say the extra time and delays their taking to build the damn thing were for infrastructure revisions, but unforunately, its due to the city's budget shortfall. You know a city's in bad shape when they have to start forcing furloughs on its employees, but that's a whole nother issue.

The accidents were due to people not reading the signs and not be use to the light rail being there. There is a reason why accidents have dropped significantly since the thing first opened. People are aware of the rules and are use to the light rail now.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by DANNYY

If you guys have seen the renderings for some of the lines, some segments will be elevated.

Can you post a link to the renderings??? I think I've seen them, but I'm not sure.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by jfre81

If you had to run the University at-grade most of the way, at least tunnel/elevate it over some of the busier intersections. Montrose, Shepherd, Kirby etc.

But see, if you ran it down the Westheimer ROW, then you could tunnel it under 610 and Post Oak and have a stop right there in the Galleria parking garage underground.That would really negate the need for the Uptown line in its current form. In the current plan, that exists almost strictly to connect the Galleria to the University line.

A line east of the Loop needs to pick up the Southwest Fwy. stuff plus Westheimer isn't wide enough there. And Richmond is an even split N/S between Westheimer and the freeway.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by mm4

A line east of the Loop needs to pick up the Southwest Fwy. stuff plus Westheimer isn't wide enough there. And Richmond is an even split N/S between Westheimer and the freeway.

I wasn't talking about putting it on the street necessarily, for one. Although the narrow part of Westheimer is nearly useless as a major thoroughfare for that same reason.

And what exactly does the location of the freeway have to do with anything? Are people going to park on the shoulder of the freeway and get on the train? I'm a bit lost there.

[stoneclaw]

Originally Posted by Scarface713

The accidents were due to people not reading the signs and not be use to the light rail being there. There is a reason why accidents have dropped significantly since the thing first opened. People are aware of the rules and are use to the light rail now.

True, but you have to admit, it's poorly designed system. When i first moved to Houston and first drove on Main Street, i was confused. I could easily see how someone could get confused and make a wrong turn or have an accident. Matter of a fact, about a month ago, there was a man with a Florida License plate about to make a turn and he was stopped at the light, ON THE TRACK. It's not a very user friendly system for someone who isn't familiar with the streetscape of Main Street.

[Mister Nifty]

Originally Posted by Spade

But honestly, Houston's light rail is nothing more than a streetcar system if it continues to run along the street for it's entire length and I have no problem with that. It's not any different than what Washington DC is currently building right now with their new lines. It is meant to get you from neighborhood to neighborhood but it's slow. Houston's LRT system is not rapid transit and I don't think they want it to be.

But the question is when will Houston get the type of rail system that you will find in other cities. I do think they are doing it the right way by taking care of the urban neighborhoods first. But I wish it could have it's own row that rarely has any interaction with the street. But of course, this isn't Houston's fault. The feds and the local government is not helping. I also agree, University line must be done.

Indeed, most of what is urban Houston is packed together and isolated in and around about 12 square miles within and right outside the southwestern quarter of its 610 loop. Meanwhile, the urban areas in Dallas - Fort Worth are, in most instances, ten miles serperated and as much as thirty miles apart in the case of the distance between the downtowns of Dallas and Fort Worth.
Using downtown Dallas and the Telecom Corridor as examples, those areas and the area between them offer citizens a lot of options in regards to where they might work, live, and shop. Therefore, the vacuum that exists along the rail line between those two business centers has attracted TODs. As the metropolitan area becomes more rail cultured, certainly more people will choose to live in TODs and feel comfortable using the trains.
As the city of Houston is building rail mostly where there already exists urban areas, and as these urban areas are seperated by only four to five miles, there is less likelihood of TOD development.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by Mister Nifty

As the city of Houston is building rail mostly where there already exists urban areas, and as these urban areas are seperated by only four to five miles, there is less likelihood of TOD development.

+ Yes. As far as office and med center goes.

In D there's big new residential, hotel & retail TOD around inner urban nodes like Mockingbird, Park Ln., downtown (and UT Southwestern on the Green), etc. But that would have been less likely if 7.5 mi. of Red Line were the extent of things and the whole line was subdivided by stop lights.

[mm4]

Originally Posted by jfre81

I wasn't talking about putting it on the street necessarily, for one. Although the narrow part of Westheimer is nearly useless as a major thoroughfare for that same reason.

And what exactly does the location of the freeway have to do with anything?

The freeway holds quite a bit of its own abutting development. People using a University line are going to want to walk to it as well as to destinations on Westheimer. (Although when it first goes in some riders and landlords are going to be thinking shuttle vans or short bus hops here and there if one happens by serendipidously where existing development is relatively distant from a line station. Mostly just walking to any preexisting towers within several blocks to half a mile. And walking to/from housing. Inner loop housing is bone marrow to a University line.)

Are people going to park...?

Huh? I guess you're right, a lot of riders may want to use this line as a park and ride. But that's an issue to be settled later by the city council, traffic dept., neighbors, etc. In settings where rail transit is more evolved, very few if any people are parking in the inner city to get on trains--there's no room to park, and they live and work within a mile of each used station.

Three things could happen: 1. Houstonians could try, or 2. a little Bethesda style municipal public metered garage construction in denser sections of the inner Loop (which won't happen), and 3. private landlords open up some of their own parking garages to metered usage.

Or 4., more H's start walking, like people in parts of the country with these kinds of systems.

Constructing transit station garages isn't even considered unless they're on the Loop or the Beltway.

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by astrohip

One of the answers given by rail proponents is that we need more rail, that our system is too small so the benefits are limited. If we double the size, triple the size, we will begin to see actual benefits.

Looks like you made my point for me.

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

For you to say lightrail isn't for us is absurd.

I've said several times, I am not against mass transit, but our currently designed system does not work. Light rail and cars can not share the same streets, side by side. It hasn't worked so far, and there is no reason to think it will in the future. IMHO, it will get worse, not better, when they build the University line.

Originally Posted by DANNYY

If you guys have seen the renderings for some of the lines, some segments will be elevated.

Very very few parts are elevated. Mainly where they have to clear a train track or freeway or something they can't move. But major intersections? Nah, they're street grade.

http://www.metrosolutions.org/clients/1068/300991.pdf

Originally Posted by jfre81

If you had to run the University at-grade most of the way, at least tunnel/elevate it over some of the busier intersections. Montrose, Shepherd, Kirby etc.

But see, if you ran it down the Westheimer ROW, then you could tunnel it under 610 and Post Oak and have a stop right there in the Galleria parking garage underground.That would really negate the need for the Uptown line in its current form. In the current plan, that exists almost strictly to connect the Galleria to the University line.

Except they aren't doing any of this. Street grade. Traffic snarl creating street grade rail.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

True, but you have to admit, it's poorly designed system. When i first moved to Houston and first drove on Main Street, i was confused. I could easily see how someone could get confused and make a wrong turn or have an accident. Matter of a fact, about a month ago, there was a man with a Florida License plate about to make a turn and he was stopped at the light, ON THE TRACK. It's not a very user friendly system for someone who isn't familiar with the streetscape of Main Street.

and on top of that; the trains run the red lights sometimes. I always get nervous crossing over or driving along side the tracks.