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Is Houston really that cheap anymore? Sure you can get a 70's/early 80's style house in a somewhat sketchy neighborhood for cheap. If you want a good house in a nice neighborhood you're looking at 200k+ though. The overhead in Houston is off the charts though. You have costly 'deregulated' energy and some of the hottest weather in the country, you have insurance costs an order of magnitude higher than any other part of the country. Then theres the $4000k+ property tax.
You're looking at overhead to run a decent house in Houston at about $12,000/year.
Houston might be cheap compared to Chicago and NYC. But its no longer cheap compared to most of the rest of the country anymore even if the cost of getting in the door compares favorably to most of the country. This high overhead cost is why you're seeing foreclosures in Texas accelerate while most of the rest of the country is stabilizing IMO.
^Remember these people who throw around the "cheap" description are coming from places where they might pay $2,000/month for a tiny apartment, or that "POS" in Spring Branch looks like a mansion in Beverly Hills compared to what the same money would get you in California - well, at least before the housing bust hit.
And of course, depending on one's perspective, Spring Branch may well be "the suburbs." Then again depending on the perspective, that describes all of Houston. Anyway. Onward I guess...
Paying $2000/mo for a studio is what I consider an expensive city. My argument is that a POS house in our top school zones isn't exactly cheap @ 500-700k.
I guess it is perspective, but I don't see how anyone could compare an area just ouside of 610 & I-10 with a modern day suburb of Houston. But hey, it's possible!
IMO- Houston (proper) dosen't fit into the cheap city category. It's not Beverly Hills, but not cheap if you want top schools & a safe street.
Paying $2000/mo for a studio is what I consider an expensive city. My argument is that a POS house in our top school zones isn't exactly cheap @ 500-700k.
But compared with most major US cities, yes it is. At that point you are not buying the house, but the location and the school district. Just like when you are renting that $2,000 studio in Manhattan. You're paying for the address.
Paying $2000/mo for a studio is what I consider an expensive city. My argument is that a POS house in our top school zones isn't exactly cheap @ 500-700k.
I guess it is perspective, but I don't see how anyone could compare an area just ouside of 610 & I-10 with a modern day suburb of Houston. But hey, it's possible!
IMO- Houston (proper) dosen't fit into the cheap city category. It's not Beverly Hills, but not cheap if you want top schools & a safe street.
No, I'm going to have to disagree with you, Lizzy. Straight up comparison, apples to apples, buying a house with the same targets (yours = top schools, safe street, etc), Houston is STILL a LOT cheaper per square foot than LA, SD, SF, Chicago, NYC, DC, Boston, and Philly. Like, a LOT. Ok, so you're talking $500-700k here. You're talking $1.5 there for the same thing.
You've been to Chicago? Sounds like you have been to the rural areas outside Chicago. I never saw a cow in the city. Also, you have obviously not visited the forest preserves in Chicago. The country around Chicago is mostly flat, but it is here too. I have seen more cows driving around the suburbs here than I ever saw in Chicago, though if you go further out, you will see farms.
Note: Chicago has great architecture (much nicer than Houston's)
Note: The snow is quite variable. We did NOT have 20 feet every year. You must be thinking of Buffalo, NY or Minnesota. Chicago gets an average of 2 feet per year (stats from 1971-2000). You accidentally multiplied by 10? The greatest amount for that period was in 1978-79 when we had the blizzard that got Bilandic kicked out of office because he forgot to order enough salt to clear the streets). The amount of snowfall that year was a little over 3 feet.
Note: You don't have to stay inside when it snows, especially if it is not below zero. The average temperature rarely falls below 20 though we did get some temps that were pretty bad in a few years I lived there. The wind chill is another factor and that can get bad, but I walked all winter in Chicago even in the snow.
The summer months in Houston can be pretty brutal and I don't go outside and walk here nearly as much as I did in Chicago by the lake.
Dorothy
It's all well and good to compare Houston and Chicago, but I'll just tell you this much: I love VISITING Chicago, but I would never, ever want to live there.
I detest (detest, loathe, hate, despise, cannot stand and will not tolerate under any circumstances) the frigid winters; I find the large marjority of Chicagoans rude and unfriendly; I've toured the city extensively and I keep looking for all this "beauty" everyone keeps talking about---when I find it, I'll let you know. Personally, I think the city's an ugly old midwestern rust belt city on a cesspool of a lake. Like Cleveland, only big (yes, I've been to both).
Now, there are some AMAZING restaurants in the city, and the nightlife's hopping---but those are the only things I see to recommend it.
If you want to see a REAL northern city, go to New York, which is 4 times bigger, has much more in the way of aesthetic beauty, 10 times more restaurants and nightlife---in fact, is everything Chicago wishes it were, but ISN'T.
For me? Houston's too damn cold in the winter. I need to move closer to the equator...
Personally, I think the city's an ugly old midwestern rust belt city on a cesspool of a lake.
On the several occasions I ventured there, Chicago struck me as a less densely-populated Bronx - broken down and dilapidated - but with a higher crime rate than the Bronx. For instance, the Bronx has 1/2 Chicago's population, but only 1/4 of the murders per year.
I guess it is perspective, but I don't see how anyone could compare an area just ouside of 610 & I-10 with a modern day suburb of Houston. But hey, it's possible!
It's certainly laid out more like a modern suburb, is it not?
It's certainly auto-dependent like a modern suburb, is it not?
You know that old "if it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck" saying?
Being "in the City of Houston" doesn't matter. If the COH annexed a farm in Waller County, it wouldn't make that farm any more urban than it was before. It's still in the middle of nowhere, a long drive from anything of interest and devoid of public transit, even on the level that Houston generally has inside the Beltway. All it would mean is more taxes for the farmer.
Spring Branch, while "in the city" is a good ways outside of the traditional urban core of Houston, such as it is. It lacks even the quality of public transit that exists inside the loop, let alone the "expensive" cities mentioned earlier in this thread. It is, for all intents and purposes, a suburb and has been since it went up in the 50s.
It doesn't stop being a suburb because immigrants now live there, either.
To bring this tangent back on topic, no, Houston isn't very cheap, unless being a homeowner and/or living in a place served by "good schools." (I put it in quotes since "good" ones are still ultimately run under a system that's broken all the way up to the TEA, but that's yet another divergence from the topic of people's preferences in cities to live in)
It's all well and good to compare Houston and Chicago, but I'll just tell you this much: I love VISITING Chicago, but I would never, ever want to live there.
I detest (detest, loathe, hate, despise, cannot stand and will not tolerate under any circumstances) the frigid winters; I find the large marjority of Chicagoans rude and unfriendly; I've toured the city extensively and I keep looking for all this "beauty" everyone keeps talking about---when I find it, I'll let you know. Personally, I think the city's an ugly old midwestern rust belt city on a cesspool of a lake. Like Cleveland, only big (yes, I've been to both).
Now, there are some AMAZING restaurants in the city, and the nightlife's hopping---but those are the only things I see to recommend it.
If you want to see a REAL northern city, go to New York, which is 4 times bigger, has much more in the way of aesthetic beauty, 10 times more restaurants and nightlife---in fact, is everything Chicago wishes it were, but ISN'T.
For me? Houston's too damn cold in the winter. I need to move closer to the equator...
LOL. As I said, it's a personal decision. I hate the heat, you hate the cold. As for NYC, I would not live there either. Also, if you don't like cold winters, don't move to either Chicago or NYC. I don't like the east coast - too crowded. I grew up in New York (not in the city, but close). I still have relatives there and get back. That's a place I love visiting, but would not want to live in. My husband would love living there though.
I would be back in Chicago in a flash if my grandchildren were not here.
The people in Houston are friendly and I love them, but I never found the people in Chicago rude or unfriendly and I lived there for 40 years (in the north burbs, not *in* the city, though). I worked in the inner city teaching at a very difficult high school. I have friends who teach in NYC's schools and that's no great shakes either.
I like Seattle. I like San Francisco. I like Portland. I think I could live in any of those cities, but they are much more expensive than Houston, too.
It's certainly laid out more like a modern suburb, is it not?Portions of 77024 back to 601/I0/Galleria area where crappy houses sell within days on the market @ 250/sq ft. It's not a comp to Sugarland, Katy or The woodlands in terms of lay out or price point.
It does comp to many other large cities (per my earlier criteria).
It's certainly auto-dependent like a modern suburb, is it not? Most Houstonians, Sugarlanders, Katyites, & Woodlanders need a car, yes.
You know that old "if it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck" saying?
The area I'm talking about was a duck in the 50's, but it's now an older bird with expensive feathers. This area is comparable to many other major cities. I never claimed we are similar to NYC/ Beverly Hills, but at the very least Houston isn't a cheap bird, and that's what my origional point was. River Oaks was once predicted to be a flop while in development, because it was too far out and very much a suburban neighborhood. Most people don't consider RO in the burbs anymore. They outgrew their suburban label with miles of development boomed all around R.O. ..........similar story with 77024, it lost it's suburban label when people started calling Fulshear a Hosuton suburb. I just don't know anyone else living here who would say "suburban" is an accurate desciption.
Being "in the City of Houston" doesn't matter. If the COH annexed a farm in Waller County, it wouldn't make that farm any more urban than it was before. It's still in the middle of nowhere, a long drive from anything of interest and devoid of public transit, even on the level that Houston generally has inside the Beltway. All it would mean is more taxes for the farmer.
Spring Branch, while "in the city" is a good ways outside of the traditional urban core of Houston, such as it is. It lacks even the quality of public transit that exists inside the loop, let alone the "expensive" cities mentioned earlier in this thread. It is, for all intents and purposes, a suburb and has been since it went up in the 50s.Heck 610/I-10 is pretty much in our urban core, IMO. There aren't any decent school options in downtown neighborhoods or even in River Oaks areas for fantastic public trio of schools. I used 77024 to show the top schools go with lousy 750k homes, and that is expensive for plenty other major cities,
It doesn't stop being a suburb because immigrants now live there, either. OK, this is funny because know I see we aren't talking about the same areas of Spring Branch. There aren't any immigrants on this side of the freeway.
To bring this tangent back on topic, no, Houston isn't very cheap, unless being a homeowner and/or living in a place served by "good schools." (I put it in quotes since "good" ones are still ultimately run under a system that's broken all the way up to the TEA, but that's yet another divergence from the topic of people's preferences in cities to live in)
OK back on topic......and I agree with you that Houston's best schools/neighborhoods aren't cheap.
Houston isn't NYC or Beverly Hills expensive....but it's not cheap.
My personal tangent:
I just get annoyed (not with you jfre or Malvie) hearing how "cheap" my city is when I know I pay the same (or more) for my "apple" here, than my friends pay for their "apples" in other big cities. Mixing schools/safety/kids/location in the mix, is why Houston has to have these far far out exburbs with commutes from hell. Most well educated, hard working people can't afford the cost of living in the city zoned to stellar schools. They can get stellar schools in a Woodlands house that costs 4 times less than mine. It makes me mad that the best options in the city for families are not finacially possible for most. It stinks.
I'm in red above. Lol, Ambien kicking in half way through my response warrants a pre-apology. No yawn emoticon.
EDIT: Just scanned mt post & owe you an extra apology.......it's bad but the sand man just came by.
What are these "big cities" in which your friends live? Just wondering.
When I say "urban core" I mean the traditional one. 610/Katy Freeway is the suburban "edge city." It has tall buildings. It looks urban and dense from a distance. It's not. See that photo thread I posted the other day and compare it with the ones from in and around downtown. There is a difference in design. People who buy homes around there are still buying into a suburb.
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But hey, it's possible! 
