Income Tax vs. Homeowners Tax (League City, Mart: houses, neighborhoods, buying)

[jek74]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

I hate property tax. It means that when you "purchase' property, all you are really doing is paying someone for the right to rent that property from the government. If you don't believe this is true, don't pay your property tax, and watch who takes that property.

My first choice would be to have the property tax replaced by a sales tax. My second choice, which isn't even close in terms of desire, is to have property tax replaced by an income tax.

Edit, I know this is somewhat OT, but I take any opportunity I get to voice this opinion.

Man, I can't believe you are going to make me argue a pro government position. But that house of "yours" that "you" own. Who protects that home? Local police. Who comes rushing to put out the fire in your home? The local fire department. Who grows the local economy so that you will have someone to sell "your" home to when you decide to leave? The local and to some extent state and even federal government. Who regulates the electricity that goes into your home? Yup, you got it, government. Who makes sure the water that goes into your home is clean? Government again. Who makes sure the streets are paved in front of "your" home? Who delivers the mail to "your" home? You may own that home, but you are NOT covering all the expenses. Someone else is chipping in. That is why you pay property taxes. And last but not least, you get to earn the free stolen money that gets taken from the middle class vis a vis inflation which gets added to the value of your home in the form of appreciation. How do you dem apples?

[jasonamd]

If I still lived in MN and earned what I do now I would be paying over $7000 in state income taxes on top of whatever property taxes would be. Property tax including MUD taxes on my home here is around $6000. So not even factoring in property taxes in MN, I pay less here. Not to mention a similar home to what I have here would cost considerably more.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by Supermac34

Its funny that the argument against consumption (VAT or Sales taxes) is that they unfairly put a burden on lower income households. Since a larger portion of you income is used to by necessities, you are more directly affected by consumption taxes than someone that makes higher incomes and can choose to spend or not spend.

Yes, but the low income households will no longer be paying property taxes.

Let's say you have a low income household living in a $60k home. At 3%, the property tax they pay each year is $1800. Let's say you have to raise the sales tax by 10% to make up the difference from the property tax. That means that low income household would have to spend $18,000 per year. Do you believe a low income is spending over $1500 a month on items they'd be taxed? I doubt it.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jek74

Man, I can't believe you are going to make me argue a pro government position. But that house of "yours" that "you" own. Who protects that home? Local police. Who comes rushing to put out the fire in your home? The local fire department. Who grows the local economy so that you will have someone to sell "your" home to when you decide to leave? The local and to some extent state and even federal government. Who regulates the electricity that goes into your home? Yup, you got it, government. Who makes sure the water that goes into your home is clean? Government again. Who makes sure the streets are paved in front of "your" home? Who delivers the mail to "your" home? You may own that home, but you are NOT covering all the expenses. Someone else is chipping in. That is why you pay property taxes. And last but not least, you get to earn the free stolen money that gets taken from the middle class vis a vis inflation which gets added to the value of your home in the form of appreciation. How do you dem apples?

And who said those shouldn't be paid for?

How much of your property tax goes to pay for the military? None, but somehow we still have one.

How much of your property tax goes to pay for FEMA? None, but somehow it's still there.

How much of your property tax goes to pay for OSHA? None, but they still help protect workers.

Why do you seem to thing that the only way fire, police and schools can be paid for is by making people rent their property from the government?

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jek74

Who grows the local economy so that you will have someone to sell "your" home to when you decide to leave? The local and to some extent state and even federal government.

Really, the government grows the economy?

[theSUBlime]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Really, the government grows the economy?

No, banks do.

[jasonamd]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

And who said those shouldn't be paid for?

How much of your property tax goes to pay for the military? None, but somehow we still have one.

How much of your property tax goes to pay for FEMA? None, but somehow it's still there.

How much of your property tax goes to pay for OSHA? None, but they still help protect workers.

Why do you seem to thing that the only way fire, police and schools can be paid for is by making people rent their property from the government?

All of those items are paid through income tax. Property tax goes to local governments.

No matter how you want to play with the words, one way or another you are going to pay taxes for local expenses and property taxes is a fair way to do it. If you want to call it renting, then so be it.

Raising the sales tax would be a very poor way to collect taxes for local expenses such as schools, fire, parks, etc. Now you have people visiting, taking vacations, being taxed for things they get no benefit from. And what about smaller cities that don't have many stores, etc to get sales tax? And then you may have cities around a metro area like Houston that have different sales tax rates because of different needs. For example, let's say Houston is 10% and Pearland is 15%. Why make a large purchase in Pearland when you could drive to Houston and pay 5% less?

Try not paying your federal income tax...they can come take your house too...and most anything else you own.

[PedroMartinez]

Originally Posted by jasonamd

No matter how you want to play with the words, one way or another you are going to pay taxes for local expenses and property taxes is a fair way to do it. If you want to call it renting, then so be it.

Do you have any idea what gentrification is? Is so, tell me how fair that is to the poor who essentially get pushed out of their neighborhoods due to property taxes?

Maybe you think it's fair that the people living in areas that you feel are convenient to the city are pushed out due to skyrocketing taxes and their homes bulldozed for the next hipster, but a lot of people don't see that as fair.

[jek74]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Really, the government grows the economy?

Capitalism cannot exist with the law and more specifically contract law. Look at countries who don't honor and enforce contracts and tell me how good their economy is. Yes, the government most certainly does play an important role in supporting an economy. I'm a libertarian but the one thing I absolutely believe the government and should and does do is create the laws by which contracts are created and enforced. Without them, their would be no economy.

[jek74]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Do you have any idea what gentrification is? Is so, tell me how fair that is to the poor who essentially get pushed out of their neighborhoods due to property taxes?

Maybe you think it's fair that the people living in areas that you feel are convenient to the city are pushed out due to skyrocketing taxes and their homes bulldozed for the next hipster, but a lot of people don't see that as fair.

No, they are not pushed out because of property taxes, they are pushed out due to inflation. I agree, when the gov't devalues it's currency and expands its credit, it allows yuppies to drive up the price of real estate in such a way that poor and lower middle class will never be allowed to enter. But that is not because of TAXES! Look at CA. They have a property tax if about 1%, about 1/3 of ours. Yet it is the most segregated state in the country. Why? Because the cost of entry into a decent area is 1 million dollars.