High speed train Dallas to Houston (Fort Worth, Arlington: bill, pay, county)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

For one thing the only reason its coming into town from the northwest instead of from the north which would make a Hardy corridor route possible is because they decided to side step the route and include College Station as a stop. Forget College Station, bring it in along I-45 which was the original plan and voila you have a feasible route into downtown that avoids the more expensive Washington Corridor.

I bet they could save a few bucks by terminating the northern terminus short of DT Dallas as well, do you think they would consider that for even a millisecond? Heck no, and I say the same for Houston's terminus as well. Build the Aggie Highway beef up Hobby International and forget this HSR as far as I am concerned.

They were thinking about stopping in SE Dallas, but DFW interests raised a stink and now it will stop in downtown Dallas. They have had a site for months. And they are getting TXDOT to work on building from Downtown Dallas to Ft. Worth with a stop in Grapevine near DFW airport. That in itself is a benefit to DFW's airport vs. IAH. They will get people transferring from train as they do in Europe. That won't happen here as the line will be far from IAH.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

I understand this is a federal decision of not taking it into downtown,

But I can say it will seem that downtown Dallas will appear at being more successful in luring more projects like these to its core. Travelers will notice this and they won't care if it was a federal decision or not. They will probably more than likely blame Houston for not having it built in the same fashion, UNLESS it comes up with an alternative that's done right.

No, its the decision of the developers.

[oceangaia]

If the feds stop it at NW Mall then the city will come under heavy pressure to connect it to downtown and to Galleria via LRT. Perhaps this is a power play by the feds to force the city to cover the costs within the city and be sure it serves the whole city not just downtown.

[curbur]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

If the feds stop it at NW Mall then the city will come under heavy pressure to connect it to downtown and to Galleria via LRT. Perhaps this is a power play by the feds to force the city to cover the costs within the city and be sure it serves the whole city not just downtown.

I think more than likely it's a power play by the developers who don't want to bother extending the line into downtown because it won't make them that much more revenue. Like Jack said, they had the same incentives not to go into downtown Dallas, but felt compelled to remedy that issue when the city of Dallas urged them to do so. The simple fact of the matter is that these are two Dallas businessmens' interests serving this line, and is why the only other long term plans are to ultimately connect Dallas to Ft Worth and then down the I-35 corridor to Austin and San Antonio one day. I bet for a SA to Houston line another developer will have to come in more than likely as it wouldn't serve Texas Central Partners' interests.

The Feds certainly had a lot of their own material to review, but don't be think that TCP didn't paint a narrative of where these stations needed to go and they agreed according to TCP's data. When the Federal Rail Administration approved this plan, keep in mind that they were reviewing and looking at TCP's plans, not their own that they engineered from scratch. Was it possible to truly go downtown given TCP's current alignment plans, etc.? Probably not, but was there some way we could have gotten the train into downtown? Certainly, it's just being overlooked or ignored. That being said, I don't really mind having the station there. I think a lot of these business travelers will be heading west on I-10 to the energy corridor anyways. If we can slap some light rail that goes through the heights or down the washington ave. corridor, then that will be even more ideal than HSR to downtown because we'll be able to have more stops.

[Jack Lance]

Originally Posted by curbur

I think more than likely it's a power play by the developers who don't want to bother extending the line into downtown because it won't make them that much more revenue. Like Jack said, they had the same incentives not to go into downtown Dallas, but felt compelled to remedy that issue when the city of Dallas urged them to do so. The simple fact of the matter is that these are two Dallas businessmens' interests serving this line, and is why the only other long term plans are to ultimately connect Dallas to Ft Worth and then down the I-35 corridor to Austin and San Antonio one day. I bet for a SA to Houston line another developer will have to come in more than likely as it wouldn't serve Texas Central Partners' interests.

The Feds certainly had a lot of their own material to review, but don't be think that TCP didn't paint a narrative of where these stations needed to go and they agreed according to TCP's data. When the Federal Rail Administration approved this plan, keep in mind that they were reviewing and looking at TCP's plans, not their own that they engineered from scratch. Was it possible to truly go downtown given TCP's current alignment plans, etc.? Probably not, but was there some way we could have gotten the train into downtown? Certainly, it's just being overlooked or ignored. That being said, I don't really mind having the station there. I think a lot of these business travelers will be heading west on I-10 to the energy corridor anyways. If we can slap some light rail that goes through the heights or down the washington ave. corridor, then that will be even more ideal than HSR to downtown because we'll be able to have more stops.

This idea about the NW HSR station being a catalyst to build a new Light Rail line is nonsense , its like putting lipstick on a pig. I would rather they just slow the HSR line down at the NW junction and proceed Downtown via the regular rail line, which would have a speed limit of 60 mph as it sits now without any improvements, and hook up with light rail at a brand new, state of the art Rail station there. With a few improvements that speed could be increased to 80 mph without having to lay any new track, all that would be needed are some improvements to any at grade crossings there may be. At the most this would ad about 5 minutes onto the total time station to station.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_s..._United_States

But as others have posted this is the same crap they pulled on Dallas and Dallas stood up for itself and demanded a downtown terminus and got their way. Is Houston going to stand up for itself or is it going to roll over and accept second best status in HSR?

[astrohip]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

Planned high-speed rail line won't come downtown

That kills any enthusiasm I had for the project...

Same here. Downtown is still the economic hub of Houston. Sure we have Greenway, Galleria, Energy Corridor, Woodlands, etc, but downtown still rules the roost. There are places to park, every freeway goes there, most events are held in downtown, or a rail ride away (NRG Park).

NW Mall area? Nada, zip, zero. I have no desire to go there to catch a train.

Originally Posted by oceangaia

If the feds stop it at NW Mall then the city will come under heavy pressure to connect it to downtown and to Galleria via LRT. Perhaps this is a power play by the feds to force the city to cover the costs within the city and be sure it serves the whole city not just downtown.

Not sure what you mean by this (bold part)? Isn't this a privately funded venture? Feds have no involvement at all? Curious...

[oceangaia]

Originally Posted by astrohip

Not sure what you mean by this (bold part)? Isn't this a privately funded venture? Feds have no involvement at all? Curious...

Not by the feds directly but perhaps due to lobbying by the developers. Privately funded? Ha. Show me one mass transit project in the U.S. that has been privately funded. It's not economically feasible and the developers know it. That's why they don't want to pay for this very expensive segment to downtown and may be hoping that if they bring it to the edge of the Loop, the city will have to ante up and take it the rest of the way home. Of course, the developers will want to operate and collect all the revenues.

[Spade]

Ouch. There is nothing around that place. When you have business travelers come in from the Metroplex, they will get to the terminus in Houston and do what? There's nothing around there. They have to catch a cab to Downtown or to Uptown? Wonder if this will help Houston get funds to build a light rail to stop. I really wish it went to Downtown Houston. Once it gets inside the loop, it will usually travel at slow speeds anyway. I do understand that they need land to acquire to build it to downtown though. Frustrating for Houston officials I bet.

[KerrTown]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

Yes this is about whats best for Dallas they have proven this over and over. Eckels has always been a puppet , but even so I always said if this is built into downtown then fine I would support it.

I'm with you downtown, or forget it.

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

Yea well I don't think Houston is a favorite of the Feds either. They interpret the facts to suit their wants like most. And I agree with your assessment of what people will think. This will be seen as another example of how messy and disorganized Houston is with little or no thought that Houston was trying to revitalize its core but the Feds and the imperial aspirations of the good people of Dallas took precedent.

Hopefully this misguided project can be scuttled. Houston should focus on consolidating economic activity in Texas like Chicagoland does in Illinois to make this project unnecessary. Why don't we engage in a Houston Enterprise Fund to attract companies away from Dallas, Austin, and maybe San Antonio and to seal the deal to choose Houston when companies come to Texas?

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Jack Lance

This idea about the NW HSR station being a catalyst to build a new Light Rail line is nonsense , its like putting lipstick on a pig. I would rather they just slow the HSR line down at the NW junction and proceed Downtown via the regular rail line, which would have a speed limit of 60 mph as it sits now without any improvements, and hook up with light rail at a brand new, state of the art Rail station there. With a few improvements that speed could be increased to 80 mph without having to lay any new track, all that would be needed are some improvements to any at grade crossings there may be. At the most this would ad about 5 minutes onto the total time station to station.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_s..._United_States

But as others have posted this is the same crap they pulled on Dallas and Dallas stood up for itself and demanded a downtown terminus and got their way. Is Houston going to stand up for itself or is it going to roll over and accept second best status in HSR?

They would need improvements, but they could do it at a slower speed. That makes sense.

The neighborhoods were complaining about the 2 rail routes, so the developer was talking about going down the I-10 ROW. Clearly that would be a lot more expensive and they are trying to get by with stopping at NW Mall. Maybe they want the state to pay for that stretch like the state will have to do for Dallas to Ft. Worth (which will be about 4 billion).