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So, you arbitrarily decide that lake charles is "less louisianaian" to fit your argument, because you had no refutation for Houston creole culture being similar to it than NO creole? Dude, just bow out of this subject.
I bet you can't even come up with a standard of what "Louisianian culture" is.
I bet you don't even know that US creole culture as we know it doesn't even originate from Louisiana.
It's clear you're not qualified to be making any definitive statements on the subject of creole culture in Texas, Louisiana or anywhere else much less the connection between them.
Dude you totally skirted past my entire point. I'm not about to sit here retype everything.
Zydeco is treated the same way in the Afr'Am communities of Houston and Southern Louisiana.
3 of 4 of my grandparents are creoles from the Opelousas. I grew up doing frequent visits there and New Iberia as well as the golden triangle. And many of them have moved to H town since then.
I literally grew up in this culture. You didn't. You're a Venezuelan, point blank period. You are not apart of this ethnicty(african american) let alone this subethnic group(creole) no matter where you've lived. You're not apart of the creole community of Houston or Louisiana to be speaking definitively about it or the connection between the two more than someone who actually grew up in this community. Afr'Ams of creole heritage are all connected to each other in ways an outsider like you wouldn't understand, just like all Afr'Am are as a whole are.
Your frequent trips to Louisiana don't account for you living there. I actually lived there. You didn't. You should take your own advice and not speak like you grew up somewhere you didn't. Being of Venezuelan origin doesn't define my experiences. I lived in Louisiana for a lot longer than I did Venezuela. The only reason my Venezuelan roots show more than other people who moved to USA at such an early age is because my family usually spent about 3-4 months out of every year back home.
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
In the same way a gringo like me moving to Venezuela for some time doesn't give me the same insight as a person who actually grew up in an actual Venezuelan household even if it was outside of Venezuela.
The delusions of grandeur and arrogance of you non-Afr'Ams when speaking about *MY (SUB)ETHNIC GROUP* is absolutely outrageous.
As I mentioned above, that would be a different scenario. If a gringo moved to Venezuela and went to school there and lived there for years, yes they get an understanding of the culture. I actually know some people who have done this. If they went on a few business trips each year, then no. I spent a large portion of my life in Louisiana growing up. From your statements, you didn't. Quoted by yourself.
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
You are an outsider to the Afr'Am and/or creole communities in BOTH places. The end. Stick to talking about Latino affairs.
For the millionth time, I'm not talking about the AA community. I'm talking about the community as a whole. You're not wrong about most of what you're saying, it just doesn't apply to what I said. You literally mentioned how they're different for the reason that they branched off, etc. Me, having grown up with Louisiana cajun culture, including the AA community of Lake Charles, I don't see it the same as here. And you already agreed so what point are you trying to make?
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
Yeah no............when you think of anything uniquely Houstonian in culture you're automatically thinking of African-American culture as a rule. The history, the activist. the slang, the cars, the music, the clothes, hair styles, the architecture(there's a reason the rockets did a tribute to the freedmen's town bricks in 4th ward), the food, the dance, the alternative nomenclature, the festivals(juneteeth was born here and mlk day is easily host the largest and most parades here), the accents, the slogans, and even how to throw up the "H" hand sign.
We are *THE* culture of the city, which is ubiquitous throughout Houston. Your community is simply a culture in the city occupying a space limited to only where your people are found. And not even that fully especially with 2nd generation children of immigrants who tend to adopt either the urban(Afr'Am) culture or middle american white culture or some mix of the two. lol Just look at your profile name. "Swag", huh? LMAO!
There's a very CLEAR difference there.
Go convince millions of Houstonians that aren't living their life by the way you're defining "all of Houston is" and tell them they aren't appropriately showing their Houston roots. Ofcourse blacks have a much bigger influence on the city's foundation, they were here before most other ethnicities. The problem is its not the early 1900s anymore. If you want to look at specifically the about one fourth of Houston's population and ignore the three quarters, go ahead. I'm not.
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
Oh and btw Houston isn't the most ethnically diverse city in any way, shape or form. It barely makes the top ten acccording to actual studies. Of the LARGE cities it comes in at number 10. most ethnically diverse, and when it comes to cultural diversity it comes in at 28. https://wallethub.com/edu/cities-wit...versity/10264/
Show me where I labeled Houston as the most ethnically diverse city in here. I'll wait. Houston being labeled as the most ethnically diverse city is a popular misconception, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it is diverse.
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
There is no single "louisianian culture" to be apart of in the first place. Firstly there are regional cultlures within Louisiana, and secondly and most importantly culture in the US tends to cluster around RACE more than region unlike in Latin America due to the legacy of slavery and strictly enforced segregation.
You're quoting me at this point. I covered this in my last thread.
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
Afr'Am' have tend to have different cultures than whites in the same region even if they evolved along side each other and influenced each other to some extend like in Southern Louisiana. Ie Cajun vs Creole langauge for example. Blues vs Country music. Jazz vs Bluegrass etc
But, again if obvious why you're disconnected from this history because MY people fought and spilled blood to end that here before your people even dreamed about coming here. But, the effects are still lasting
So, which Louisianian culture are you referring to? You can't be talking about the culture of my sub ethnic group in Louisiana creole-Afr'Am because you're clearly ignorant about that.
To answer your last question, the Louisiana culture I mostly associate with is Lake Charles, both north and south. A long time ago, there wasn't a lot of mix between the two, but when I was growing up there last decade, I was able to blend within the two. If your family is from Opelousas, the cajun feel there is a lot stronger than Lake Charles.
You can go to any club in Lake Charles even the most preppy club there (which currently would be OB's), and you'll hear zydeco played throughout the night. You never hear zydeco at Houston equivalents such as the Spire, Stereolive, and formerly Mercy. In Louisiana, it's a lifestyle throughout every neighborhood and every demographic that's not the case here, and the areas that do have the culture, its different because as you mentioned, it branched off.
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
Don't misquote me if you're going to attempt to cite something I said to respond to.
Houston was not built to be a hispanic city, is not, and will NEVER be one no matter how large their population gets here.
Bias at its finest.
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
Houston at it's core is an Afr'Am city. We built this place, fought for our rights(that your people benefit from) in this place, established our legacy in this place, and continue to be the driving force behind the culture of this place in a way your people could never dream of.
There's a reason why Houston has long been considered a "black mecca" of arts, business, politics, activism, and culture, consistently making the top 5 places for Afr'Am to live in because of the work WE put in and not a "latino mecca". LA, or Miami, or even San Antonio and El Paso are much a better candidates for that title. Your people simply don't have a resume that's even comes CLOSE to touching ours in this city.
I don't disagree, this isn't what I said.
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Originally Posted by JYHTOWN
Weren't y'all just crying about the lack of Latino representatives in the Houston city council, and it being dominated by Afr'Ams and Anglo whites(the original make of the city)? lol https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opi...y-14913555.php
When push comes to shove Afr'Ams in Houston have shown that we will remain stiff and steadfast and fight to the last drop of blood defending our rightful place here. (non hispanic)Whites outnumbered us more than 2:1 here at one point too and look what happened. You might wanna brush up on your Houston history on that subject, though I'll be happy to expound on that if you want. And they were a MUCH more formidable threat than y'all during the HEIGHT of white supremacy and racism back when when very few latinos would even dare DREAM of moving here let along challenging them(your people were literally begging them to be accepted as racially white back then), and we bested them. These are the same people who absolutely humiliated the entire country of Mexico TWICE, BACK TO BACK.
Just saying, you might wanna rethink your lil pipe dream of Latinos ever erasing our heritage, displacing, or dominating Afr'Ams in any way in our own city. It's not happening. We would never let it. And like i said numbers don't mean a damn thing. Just ask the old gen non hispanic whites.
"Pipe dream of Latinos ever erasing our heritage"... You need help.
I lived in NEW ORLEANS FROM 1990-2000,and then moved to Houston.
There is very little in common between the 2 cities,Houston is hispanic and to some degree Vietnamese while New Orleans is CREOLE,Black and Southern White.
There are far better job opportunities in Houston than New Orleans,when a major oil company has to choose where to locate or merge two operations,they will choose Houston over New Orleans.
I like New Orleans,it is much smaller and you hop into a street car and soon you will be downtown walking into the French Quarter,but poverty and crime rates are higher considered its size and the skills and work ethic of New Orleans do not leave much to desire.
It is a beautiful city nevertheless,houses instead of hi rise,just not many good paying jobs.
Those who live in big houses do not have much money either,a local professor I know use to drive around looking at which house does not get flooded as his broker brought him leads of homeowners looking for second mortgage ,up to $100k AT 16% then,so they can tap the hidden wealth and pay their living expenses.
I dont know what it is like now after Katrina,if it were the same,I will go back and live there,walk down the street ,go to a local coffee shop,read a newspaper in the patio ,hop on a street car and enjoy the scenes in French Quarter .
As for food,I dont like deep fried food,and avoid the MARDI GRAS crowd.
If you dont have to work for a living and meeting your day to day expenses is not a problem,dont mind the hot humid weather and wilted banana trees,come to New Orleans and enjoy the beignettes at that French Qtr cafe,jazz,Po boy sandwich,Riverwalk and the open market,the Mardi Gras,Jazz Festival,eating crawfish at your doorstep,your toilet may be running,your roof leaking,someone try t o break into your house and the plumber and electrician fail to show up,you get all the free entertainment or almost free.
There is no place like New Orleans in North America
I lived in NEW ORLEANS FROM 1990-2000,and then moved to Houston.
There is very little in common between the 2 cities,Houston is hispanic and to some degree Vietnamese while New Orleans is CREOLE,Black and Southern White.
There are far better job opportunities in Houston than New Orleans,when a major oil company has to choose where to locate or merge two operations,they will choose Houston over New Orleans.
I like New Orleans,it is much smaller and you hop into a street car and soon you will be downtown walking into the French Quarter,but poverty and crime rates are higher considered its size and the skills and work ethic of New Orleans do not leave much to desire.
It is a beautiful city nevertheless,houses instead of hi rise,just not many good paying jobs.
Those who live in big houses do not have much money either,a local professor I know use to drive around looking at which house does not get flooded as his broker brought him leads of homeowners looking for second mortgage ,up to $100k AT 16% then,so they can tap the hidden wealth and pay their living expenses.
I dont know what it is like now after Katrina,if it were the same,I will go back and live there,walk down the street ,go to a local coffee shop,read a newspaper in the patio ,hop on a street car and enjoy the scenes in French Quarter .
As for food,I dont like deep fried food,and avoid the MARDI GRAS crowd.
Exactly. These Houstonians are delusional thinking it’s extremely similar. Us who actually lived in Louisiana for years know this isn’t. Which is not a bad thing at all. Other than the Cajun and creole food in Houston tasting tasting worse, there’s not much bad that comes from being different. I obviously enjoy Houston more than Louisiana despite the differences.
Houston is ethnically diverse, not majority Hispanic or even a portion of the city Vietnamese. Houston has a mixture of Hispanic areas, Vietnamese, black and white areas. The Southside, most of Southeast and portions of SW Houston are black, same with parts of the Northside, NW & NE. You really can't label one race as being the majority in Houston.
Houston is ethnically diverse, not majority Hispanic or even a portion of the city Vietnamese. Houston has a mixture of Hispanic areas, Vietnamese, black and white areas. The Southside, most of Southeast and portions of SW Houston are black, same with parts of the Northside, NW & NE. You really can't label one race as being the majority in Houston.
- SE Texas creole cuisine is rooted from, but distinct from Louisiana creole cuisine. Though there are plenty of authentic lou creole joints around the city.
- Houston's Frenchtown is the birthplace of Zydeco, not Louisiana. It was formed by people FROM louisiana, not *IN* louisiana. Zydeco is plenty common in the Houston's Afr'am communities, not just limited to certain events. It's played at pretty much every trailride and cookout. I live in the homestead area and I can tell you it's nothing to walk outside and hear folks jamming some zydeco while munching on some bbq boudain(setx/htine thang).
- Black creoles(and non creoles) are foundational to the city Houston's existence, and have lived here since the city's founding as slaves in the early to mid 19th century. Or course over that time they aren't going to remain exactly the same culturally as Lou creoles. We ain't some recent immigrant community with an imported foreign culture. Our heritage here is as old as the city itself. Our culture is more HOUSTONIAN than that of any other ethnic group, hence why we're the only ethnic group with a distinctly "houstonian" accent, and it's our culture that pretty much gives the city it's distinctive identity(the term "h town" sure as hell doesn't come from whites, hispanics, or asians).
You may have lived in both places, but you are NOT apart of the long standing African-American communities of either places to be able to speak with authority about them, the culture of those communties, or the connection between them.
Not saying this applies to you, but for Non-African-Americans, especially in Houston, who may indulge in certain aspects of the urban AA culture here doesn't make you qualified to speak on the ins and outs of our community and heritage.
I have family that live in South TX a who I visit often, but that doesn't make me an expert on the of the long standing hispanic communities of that region or the authority to downplay the Mexican hertiage of said places by writing off South Tex-Mex culture as not "authentic" mexican culture and say San Antonio has more in common culturally with Alabama or Tennessee going by the lingua franca and the last two mayors being non-hispanic than Mexico, because I could easily sit here and do that.
Of course Houston's creole culture now wouldn't be as big as Louisiana. Houston is far bigger and more divese. Houston has a larger population in its metro than Louisiana, the state, has people. If Houston remained the size of say, Beaumont or even Baton Rouge, you would see that historic culture that was once Houston still have a better chance to remain. Nobody should expect Houston to be Louisiana. It definitely isn't. It's a Texan city through and through. But there is no city outside of the state of Louisiana that is as close to it culturally as Houston. Especially if you are Black American.
I agree. The Black people from Louisiana feel right at home in Houston due to obvious reasons. A lot of the Creole and Cajun cultures get diluted due to Houston’s overall diversity, but the Creole culture here is large enough to not be missed by a long shot. I would definitely say the Creole and Cajun cultures are more prominent than the Hispanic culture here.
The funny thing is I also agree with the vast majority of it too. The response had little to do with my response. My point summed up is that it’s not the same, which he agreed with by the way. And that the culture in Louisiana is the dominant one regardless of ethnicity while here it reflects a portion only. A large portion, but still only a portion.
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoy205
I agree. The Black people from Louisiana feel right at home in Houston due to obvious reasons. A lot of the Creole and Cajun cultures get diluted due to Houston’s overall diversity, but the Creole culture here is large enough to not be missed by a long shot. I would definitely say the Creole and Cajun cultures are more prominent than the Hispanic culture here.
Black people from Louisiana here feel right at home, but so do first generation Hispanics. Especially the Mexicans, Central Americans, Venezuelans, Colombians and Cubans. It’s not that Houston lacks the influence. It’s clearly here. It’s just so evolved that it completely changed. I have yet to try Boudin neither from here nor the Golden Triangle that’s tasted like anything from Scott, LA or anywhere in LA. And if you recommend me one that does, I will thank you every day. And the culture here not being missed by visitors, I agree but that’s true of all cultures here. What I’m saying is it’s not like Louisiana where every event uses it as it’s central piece regardless of demographic. In McNeese, you’ll hear Zydeco played at the park on a random Tuesday. In UH you hear pop and hip hop mainly and you’re more likely to hear Spanish music than Zydeco.
Now, out of specifically Mexican culture and Louisiana creole culture, which is more prominent is the debate. You say Louisiana creole and I respectfully disagree. Is the Louisiana culture more foundational? No doubt! you see it in the architecture. But Id label more prominent as what’s bigger here and what people associate with more. And heather right or wrong, the popular opinion is Mexican. People associate Houston with tacos over anything.
Last edited by ParaguaneroSwag; 04-18-2020 at 11:28 PM..
Houston really never had a culture in its founding and the Louisiana creole / south Louisiana culture went over easy up and down the gulf coast. But also, if you lived in South Louisiana your "mexicans" were "Dagos" and chinese was damn near non-existent.
The major difference as to why Mexican culture has exploded is due to Mexico being hours away and other hispanic areas. The creole culture is already diluted if you understand its origins so it doesn't take much to lose it.
Now if Africa was within a 3 year hour drive or a creole island with a large population you would have a Savannah type situation
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