Why doesn’t Houston attract as many Calif businesses as Dallas? (Austin: best suburbs, insurance)

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

I guess its not surprising that this thread devolved into a DFW vs. Houston thread since the OP ridiculously opened up this thread with inflammatory nonsense that brought nothing of value. You cant blame Dallas posters for being defensive here.

Too much that is irrelevant is being posted. Sports teams? Who is so vapid that they base their decision to move a company based on that? Sure the Astros cheated to win the World Series but frankly, Im glad they did. We just went through Harvey and we needed something as a city to lift us up. It was a very dark time in the city and that helped a long way to improving morale and outlook.

Traffic is worse in Houston but again, who bases decisions to relocate a company based on that? Im from LA and neither city has it anywhere near that bad.

Crime is higher in Houston. Thats pretty easy to decipher. The most recent crime report that listed Houston's numbers was 2016. The Greater Houston area had 578 violent crimes per 100,000 people. Atlanta had 403, DFW had 359. Now that is 4 years old at this point, but the odds that the scope has changed dramatically is near zero.

But again, none of this is going to influence corporate relocation very much. Its not until your crime becomes to the level of Baltimore or Detroit that it becomes a big issue. There are more than enough safe places in both to base a company. Its the marketing, DFW airport, and the larger selection of good suburbs which compete with each other to offer incentive packages.

If none of these minor bits add up to anything why has Houston not done as well as DFW drawing businesses?

The, "well the city hasn't tried to attract businesses until now," seems very unlikely to me.

I never once said pro sports teams were an important element per relos, except maybe for Toyota, that said sports teams are part of the tapestry of a city/metro.

Some are missing a key part of this. A company moving is one thing. Big companies moving will attempt to drag along as many existing employees as possible, sure the will be some coaxed attrition but you take my point. Big established companies will move to cities that long term employees will like. That's where varied amenities shine.

Vapid is to pretend there are no real issues at play and DFW is just lucky......."if not for DFW Airport none of this would have happened etc." that kind of thing.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by EDS_

The, "well the city hasn't tried to attract businesses until now," seems very unlikely to me.

The price of the barrel of oil reaches over $100 for a while. Companies were pouring money into Houston. It’s not that Houston was anti companies going in, but it sure as heck wasn’t trying to miss out on all that oil money to be made.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

The price of the barrel of oil reaches over $100 for a while. Companies were pouring money into Houston. It’s not that Houston was anti companies going in, but it sure as heck wasn’t trying to miss out on all that oil money to be made.

That is a fair point. But diversification is going to happen by choice or by force over the next 25-30 years.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by EDS_

That is a fair point. But diversification is going to happen by choice or by force over the next 25-30 years.

Hence why leaders have been pushing hard for diversification the last few years

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by ParaguaneroSwag

Hence why leaders have been pushing hard for diversification the last few years

Exactly. Except late 1980s to early 1990s, in the immediate aftermath of the oil bust, there's just not been an urgency for diversification. It faded by the mid-1990s because it became clear that Houston was the primary beneficiary of oil and gas industry national consolidation. So, the metro started gaining employment from that industry again. Plus, we had a couple of non-O&G success stories - BMC, Compaq, and Sysco - that made Houston feel good about itself without having to really do much.

It makes me wonder if DFW forced itself to diversify and attract non-O&G relocations after its O&G industry faded (partly because of refocus on Houston).

[LocalPlanner]

Originally Posted by EDS_

That is a fair point. But diversification is going to happen by choice or by force over the next 25-30 years.

Or not...see Detroit. OK, extreme example, but if you do nothing, your odds of getting something probably aren't as good as making an effort.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Or not...see Detroit. OK, extreme example, but if you do nothing, you're odds of getting something probably aren't as good as making an effort.

There is that.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Or not...see Detroit. OK, extreme example, but if you do nothing, you're odds of getting something probably aren't as good as making an effort.

No. EDS is actually right here. Yes it's an extreme example and for a good reason. You're forgetting the era factor. Both civil rights wise and national integration wise.

The laws of economics actually do pan out especially these days. Were Houston to literally make no push ever in its history to diversify and the O&G including in the past, Detroit fate wouldn't happen natrually. Detroit and Houston came up in 2 different eras. In 2021, despite economic diversity being beneficial, cities are integrated nationally whether or not they're one pull or diverse. This is part of the reason the 15 downturn wasn't as impacted as the 80s and the COVID downturn still has had Houston ahead of the curve as opposed to the rest of the country. And this is why Pittsburgh was able to come out of its steel bubble and Detroit wasn't. And thats saying a lot because 2021 is even astronomically more integrated than the 90s were.

Ofcourse, that doesnt mean the push for diversity isn't urgent we've already seen the benefits that the Turner era's efforts have brought in (again, credit him or whoever else, I'm speaking of the time frame), if Houston will still want to continue to grow economically as a mayor player.

[citidata18]

Pittsburgh benefitted from being home to one of the top universities in the country.

Detroit was hurt more by grossly incompetent *AND* corrupt leadership over a span of several decades.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Exactly. Except late 1980s to early 1990s, in the immediate aftermath of the oil bust, there's just not been an urgency for diversification. It faded by the mid-1990s because it became clear that Houston was the primary beneficiary of oil and gas industry national consolidation. So, the metro started gaining employment from that industry again. Plus, we had a couple of non-O&G success stories - BMC, Compaq, and Sysco - that made Houston feel good about itself without having to really do much.

Non energy companies that branch off of energy companies are still been a big success story here. As a matter of a fact, in my analysis, this is the primary thing leading Houston's diversification.

Look at Crown Castle. It's one of the "big 3" 5g infrastructure companies (second biggest of the trio), and it was formerly an energy infrastructure company. It's actually the highest valued public company in Houston now. Despite having a much lower annual revenue than say Phillips 66. Shows you how revenue doesn't equal bigger, take noted EDS... Anyway... in a world where tech is booming, Crown Castle's success story is similar to BMC Software, as this one branched from Shell. Difference is Crown Castle is actually a major player these days and BMC is a dinosour.

Then ofcourse KBR branched from Halliburton. It was previously their engineering firm, after the spin off, most of their engineering works are Aerospace and Defense. Stories like this of natural diversification are extremely big here especially since our 3 biggest historic pools (O&G, Bio & aero) require so much engineering. That engineering skill has worked to branch into other fields.

Heck, even the logistics boom can be seen as a field that branched from O&G. All the class A warehouse space in northern Houston was at one point designed to accomodate the O&G industry and quickly attracted all the major players to set up there.

And sure, not all of these success stories are full on 180s like Crown Castle and KBR, but this goes to show you how related skills can successfully turn to other fields. I'm obviously not conservative but laws of economics do pan out in many ways.