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Pittsburgh benefitted from being home to one of the top universities in the country.
University funded greatly with steel money. Just like Rice is greatly funded by old oil money. Both which have been arguably the most important players in advancing for their respective cities.
Wait a minute... Ann Arbour is in Detroit...
Last edited by ParaguaneroSwag; 02-08-2021 at 07:35 PM..
No. EDS is actually right here. Yes it's an extreme example and for a good reason. You're forgetting the era factor. Both civil rights wise and national integration wise.
The laws of economics actually do pan out especially these days. Were Houston to literally make no push ever in its history to diversify and the O&G including in the past, Detroit fate wouldn't happen natrually. Detroit and Houston came up in 2 different eras. In 2021, despite economic diversity being beneficial, cities are integrated nationally whether or not they're one pull or diverse. This is part of the reason the 15 downturn wasn't as impacted as the 80s and the COVID downturn still has had Houston ahead of the curve as opposed to the rest of the country. And this is why Pittsburgh was able to come out of its steel bubble and Detroit wasn't. And thats saying a lot because 2021 is even astronomically more integrated than the 90s were.
Ofcourse, that doesnt mean the push for diversity isn't urgent we've already seen the benefits that the Turner era's efforts have brought in (again, credit him or whoever else, I'm speaking of the time frame), if Houston will still want to continue to grow economically as a mayor player.
OK then, let's use two non-Rust Belt examples: Tulsa and New Orleans. Tulsa lost its O&G industry (to Houston - even Williams located a large share of workforce here); apart from the AA maintenance facilities, no significant industry came in. Similar to New Orleans - it became overly reliant on tourism and culture, both of which offer low wages (and yes, I know, similar to Detroit, it has had city government competency and corruption issues).
And yes, I know both of the those places are much smaller with smaller airports, but still.
University funded greatly with steel money. Just like Rice is greatly funded by old oil money. Both which have been arguably the most important players in advancing for their respective cities.
Wait a minute... Ann Arbour is in Detroit...
My impression is that Pittsburgh, after many years of flailing to attract heavy industry back, finally made a very deliberate effort in cooperation with its universities to attract new non-steel industry investments.
Don't ever let an Ann Arbor resident hear you say that (it even has its own C-D subforum), lol.
But in all seriousness, while Ann Arbor is a part of the Greater Detroit area and the University of Michigan does contirbute significantly to the talent pool of the region, since the campus is 40 miles away from the city, Detroit proper doesn't really get the direct benefit of the ecosystem that develops from having a huge concentration of college professors and students, nor does it benefit from the billions in research dollars that is poured into the university.
If none of these minor bits add up to anything why has Houston not done as well as DFW drawing businesses?
The, "well the city hasn't tried to attract businesses until now," seems very unlikely to me.
I never once said pro sports teams were an important element per relos, except maybe for Toyota, that said sports teams are part of the tapestry of a city/metro.
Some are missing a key part of this. A company moving is one thing. Big companies moving will attempt to drag along as many existing employees as possible, sure the will be some coaxed attrition but you take my point. Big established companies will move to cities that long term employees will like. That's where varied amenities shine.
Vapid is to pretend there are no real issues at play and DFW is just lucky......."if not for DFW Airport none of this would have happened etc." that kind of thing.
Why hasn't Houston done as well as DFW drawing business? Above just gave you the reasons why.
Quote:
Its the marketing, DFW airport, and the larger selection of good suburbs which compete with each other to offer incentive packages
These 3 things play a much bigger role than sports teams,DISD magnet schools and property and violent crime like your alluding to. Again those things are marginal differences that have zero influence on fortune 500 companies.
DFW airport/large organized suburbs/ marketing tactics and I'll also include geographical location play more of a role in companies choosing Dallas over Houston. These are things Houston doesn't have over DFW. Any other attribution your using to big up the city is irrelevant. Just imagine a board meeting with all the big wigs discussing the cowboys and TAG as being one of the factors for relocating a company. It's not happening lol.
Maybe a very small start up company or entrepreneur but not a big company from California.
And I don't see how you can dismiss the importance of having the DFW airport in your region. Local economies are built around hubs. And it pays to have one of the busiest airports in the world in your backyard.
Why hasn't Houston done as well as DFW drawing business? Above just gave you the reasons why.
These 3 things play a much bigger role than sports teams,DISD magnet schools and property and violent crime like your alluding to. Again those things are marginal differences that have zero influence on fortune 500 companies.
DFW airport/large organized suburbs/ marketing tactics and I'll also include geographical location play more of a role in companies choosing Dallas over Houston. These are things Houston doesn't have over DFW. Any other attribution your using to big up the city is irrelevant. Just imagine a board meeting with all the big wigs discussing the cowboys and TAG as being one of the factors for relocating a company. It's not happening lol.
Maybe a very small start up company or entrepreneur but not a big company from California.
And I don't see how you can dismiss the importance of having the DFW airport in your region. Local economies are built around hubs. And it pays to have one of the busiest airports in the world in your backyard.
Good grief man, I haven't dismissed those things. My point is other bits and pieces matter as well.
My DFW order of merit per this discussion would be something like:
1. Per the professional set, state and local tax burdens are a bargain vs. most peer states and peer cities.
2. Many suburbs offer relatively well priced, nice living opportunities with fantastic schools and some offer decent commutes into DTD.
3. The DFW and Love combo offers up great travel ops.
4. Several suburbs are in and of themselves largish cities and that offers a very different dynamic than many other metros.
5. For a big metro it's easy to get around by car. Some of that dovetails with 4.
6. DFW is very diversified.
All that said it's naive to claim that people who drive big corporate moves do not strongly consider what life will be like to employees than that includes the little things.
Toyota sent people to Plano years in advance of actually moving to scout the area.
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Another poster, who frankly I don't like very much, made a point about CD Houston posters and Houston people he's met.........he claims Houston people often have an inferiority complex regarding DFW. I don't believe that's true but it is interesting that many Houston people will yammer on endlessly about how much better the food, social, arts, cultural and medical scenes are in H-town. However, when someone points out that DFW may have a few advantages of its own Houston people go nuts.
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One more point about the title things, it's a fairly well accepted notion that Boeing moved its HQ to Chicago over DFW in great part because the then CEO and a couple of other C-suiters were sailers.
Why hasn't Houston done as well as DFW drawing business? Above just gave you the reasons why.
These 3 things play a much bigger role than sports teams,DISD magnet schools and property and violent crime like your alluding to. Again those things are marginal differences that have zero influence on fortune 500 companies.
DFW airport/large organized suburbs/ marketing tactics and I'll also include geographical location play more of a role in companies choosing Dallas over Houston. These are things Houston doesn't have over DFW. Any other attribution your using to big up the city is irrelevant. Just imagine a board meeting with all the big wigs discussing the cowboys and TAG as being one of the factors for relocating a company. It's not happening lol.
Maybe a very small start up company or entrepreneur but not a big company from California.
And I don't see how you can dismiss the importance of having the DFW airport in your region. Local economies are built around hubs. And it pays to have one of the busiest airports in the world in your backyard.
If presence of non O&G Fortune 500 companies is your definition of economic diversity, Houston is gaining momentum. Crown Castle debuted last year, Academy Sports is expected to debut this next year, KBR is a possibility, HPE will be here in 2022, and some others like American National Insurance Company are inching close. Also interesting will be where Fertitta Entertainment will fare now with that they're going public.
But diversity has more to do than that. What Axiom and the Texas Medical Center are doing diversify the economy a lot more.
Last edited by ParaguaneroSwag; 02-09-2021 at 11:24 AM..
As far as airports, it is true that DFW has better domestic connectivity, largely because it's the home base for American Airlines. That said, Houston is by no means a slouch in this category, and if anything, Houston's international connectivity (which I tend to think is more important to F500 companies) is practically on par with DFW.
As far as suburbs, granted the towns in/around DFW are more organized since they're all incorporated. But again, Houston is no slouch in these categories either. Katy, Sugar Land, Cypress, Spring, The Woodlands, etc. all have excellent schools and a comparable quality of life to some of Dallas' best suburbs.
Point being, I'm not buying the idea of DFW having a better airport or better suburbs as the main reasons for attracting more business relocations.
As far as airports, it is true that DFW has better domestic connectivity, largely because it's the home base for American Airlines. That said, Houston is by means a slouch in this category, and if anything, Houston's international connectivity (which I tend to think is more important to F500 companies) is practically on par with DFW.
As far as suburbs, granted the towns in/around DFW are more organized since they're all incorporated. But again, Houston is no slouch in these categories either. Katy, Sugar Land, Cypress, Spring, The Woodlands, etc. all have excellent schools and a comparable quality of life to some of Dallas' best suburbs.
Point being, I'm not buying the idea of DFW having a better airport or better suburbs as the main reasons for attracting more business relocations.
Yeah I was gonna say that. DFW can't be a reason here, since IAH is just about as connected. This could be a reason that DFW gets more than Austin, but not Houston.
Good grief man, I haven't dismissed those things. My point is other bits and pieces matter as well.
My DFW order of merit per this discussion would be something like:
1. Per the professional set, state and local tax burdens are a bargain vs. most peer states and peer cities.
2. Many suburbs offer relatively well priced, nice living opportunities with fantastic schools and some offer decent commutes into DTD.
3. The DFW and Love combo offers up great travel ops.
4. Several suburbs are in and of themselves largish cities and that offers a very different dynamic than many other metros.
5. For a big metro it's easy to get around by car. Some of that dovetails with 4.
6. DFW is very diversified.
All that said it's naive to claim that people who drive big corporate moves do not strongly consider what life will be like to employees than that includes the little things.
Toyota sent people to Plano years in advance of actually moving to scout the area.
_____________________
Another poster, who frankly I don't like very much, made a point about CD Houston posters and Houston people he's met.........he claims Houston people often have an inferiority complex regarding DFW. I don't believe that's true but it is interesting that many Houston people will yammer on endlessly about how much better the food, social, arts, cultural and medical scenes are in H-town. However, when someone points out that DFW may have a few advantages of its own Houston people go nuts.
____________________
One more point about the title things, it's a fairly well accepted notion that Boeing moved its HQ to Chicago over DFW in great part because the then CEO and a couple of other C-suiters were sailers.[/b]
Well I'm from East Texas so I'm not bound by either city. I can objectively look at both from the outside and form an opinion based on that. You're from Dallas and some of these posters are Houstonians so their could be a little bias on both ends if you ask me. And if you actually go back on my initial post to you I agreed with majority of the things you stated. DFW has more advantages than Houston which is why companies are relocating there and why the city is growing faster than Houston. I don't deny that one bit.
I just think the little things you speak on has no influence on why companies choose to relocate. That's it. Your claims are based off feelings and anecdotal evidence and nothing more. To me when you emphasize those little things that sounds like homerism to me.
When it comes to analyzing cities I'm probably one of most fair posters in this section. I've been accused of being Pro Dallas/ Pro Houston/ Dallas Hater/ Houston Hater and whatever else good or bad you can think of. I just don't think any city is perfect and short of criticism.
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