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Los Angeles - 11 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, El Salvador, Taiwan, Korea, Guatemala, Iran, and Armenia.
San Jose - 11 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, Taiwan, Korea, Hong Kong, Iran, Japan, and Russia
Houston - 10 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, El Salvador, Venezuela, Guatemala, Honduras, and Nigeria
San Francisco - 10 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, El Salvador, Taiwan, Korea, Guatemala, and Hong Kong
Here’s the thing about this though. While the difference isn’t huge, in my perspective, Houston’s ethnic diversity is a big more balanced from a global perspective. Noticeably, LA had no African countries in your countries list. To be fair, Houston didn’t have any Arabic, but I know the Arabic population in Houston is large and felt particularly in areas such as TMC and Outer westheimer. While Houston’s population is very Mexican, LA’s is even more so and I feel this as well between the two. All in all, I just in general see the balance more in Houston. But Houston is also less balanced than NYC.
On the other hand, Miami isn’t even in the conversation for the top 5 by any metric for this same reason. They have plenty of nationalities there but the majority of the dominant ones come from Latin America and to a lesser degree, Europe. Dallas to me is far for diverse than Miami for this reason.
And for those saying “diversity isn’t even that big of a deal”, speak for yourself. You’re entitled to your opinion, but many disagree. It is a selling point for a lot of people and that’s a fact.
If you don’t know what diversity brings, there’s not much I can tell you except we just see things differently. Diversity brings a more variable experience in many portions of daily life. In the food we eat, the dating scene, the social circles and friends we meet, the groceries we find in stores. The events around town. List goes on. It’s not even about the attractions of Chinatown, etc, although that’s definitely a plus too.
In all honestly, depends on how long you've worked for that large o&g company and what benefits you’d be giving up. Just things to ponder and not really answer in a public forum. Is your career a climber or are you stuck on limbo? What are you future goals for employment. Tale of two friends - one recently retired from an o&g co after many years and has a nice pension package and 401 at a relatively young age of 60. Many companies don’t offer that any longer. Able to enjoy life and do all the fun things she wants. The other much older and job hopped her entire life and is unhappy she didn’t stay put and feels she will have to work until she drops. She too, worked at a major o&g but not long enough to grow any sort of retirement benefits.
Just depends on where you want to focus. If you won’t be losing a lot and have plenty of time to establish yourself elsewhere and earn benefits, then could be a great time to establish yourself in a city you’d like to be in. Good luck.
I’ve had to give this a lot of thought. I’ve always been ranked very well among my peers and will almost certainly reach the executive level if I stay put. I’d be giving up a fair amount of restricted stock and certainly the pension benefits would stop accumulating.
Part of my concern is whether the pension will even be that attractive in 25 years. For one, if the sector continues to struggle it’s almost certain that those benefits will be renegotiated just like they were for the auto workers and airlines employees, and they could easily stop accruing them at any time. The pension payout is also heavily influenced by the interest rate at the time of retirement, and so there’s a fair amount of risk there.
It’s not an easy decision, but we saved enough and I feel like we’ll have enough income and accumulated assets to still meet our retirement goals. I certainly recognize this will put me behind a bit and I will not come out ahead financially, which is a bit of an ego hit.
Thanks for the comments. When people talk about the pros of Houston they almost always gravitate towards cost of living and job opportunities. Those were the drivers for me moving here and the experience I gained early in my career is invaluable. Now that I’ve established myself and money is no longer a concern though, I guess I’m just trying to see if the “grass is greener”.
I thought “If my company offered me a chance to work from anywhere in the country for $30k less, would I do it”? And I think I’ve come to the conclusion that I’d take that offer in a heartbeat… so even if I can’t quite replicate my full salary it seems my head has already made the decision.
I have no interest in a “true winter”, but have been looking hard at East Tennessee / Western Carolinas right at the base of the smokies. Strong enough economies, great list of living, close to major universities, 4 mild seasons.
It’s helpful to see why others stay though… evaluating this decision has been emotionally exhausting as I’ve always assumed I would retire with this company and in this house we built. We still may — we need to find a good offer and check out schools, etc. I’ve got 3 kids and the oldest starts 8th grade this year. We’ve decided if we can’t make the move before she starts high school we’ll likely stay out.
Some other things.
I love the restaurants.
I love the amenities such as museums.
The people are down to earth.
Its an open city, not so cliqueish as many others.
We made good friends there.
As one of my friends who has lived many different places said, "Houston is an easy city." Its easy to do things and get places (traffic is not bad at all given the size of the city--Miami and Atlanta are smaller and worse). The lack of zoning means things are mostly placed logically, not inconveniently like some planners want.
I like the weather (alright, not so much June to August, but you can get acclimated and there is air conditioning). You can do outside things almost year round.
Somewhere on these forums someone posted that they were told by a headhunter that the two cities toughest to get people to go to were Houston and Minneapolis. They were also the toughest to get people to leave. Houston grows on you.
I was with some college friends the other day, all of whom went to HS in Houton. None of us live in Houston now, but we all had the same comments, especially about the people.
But what is important is different for everyone. You have to go someplace that meets your priorities.
I’ve heard this parroted by some inner loopers. But I used to work all over town, and the absolute most congested part was inside the loop- easily. Yes, some suburbs have choke points but in many cases there was zero commute advantage (in time spent) to living in the loop, and on weekends certain parts were packed solid. Sorry but I’m not buying it.
You can get anywhere easily. I've lived in the Woodlands, Clear Lake, Westwood, Southside, Fondren Southwest and inside the loop. I've worked on jobs and assignments all over town. Much easier inside the loop. The worst jams inside the loop are the intersections with 610 heading out towards Beltway 8.
The most ethnically diverse metro area is NYC for sure.
I make the case that Washington DC, not LA, is the 2nd most.
Once you get to number 3, youve got LA, Houston, San Francisco, Miami, and San Jose that all make good cases for ethnic diversity. But there are two caveats there:
1) Miami's international immigration comes solely from one region: Latin America, the Caribbean, and Brazil. Which its very diverse on a national level, its not diverse among regions.
2) When racial diversity is factored in, Miami and San Jose leave the conversation for most diverse urban/metro areas and places like Las Vegas, Atlanta, Chicago, and DFW come back into play. The key is that racial and ethnic diversity are most important.
If Im being honest, I would rank the top 5 most diverse metro areas as such:
NYC
DC
LA
Houston
SF
While Houston is more racially balanced than LA, its also slightly less ethnically diverse. The gap between LA, Houston, and SF is very close though. I really think DC clinches the #2 spot.
Below is a list of how many different ethnic groups represent at least .5% of the population of each urban area. This is not by metro area or CSA, only the urban area population. This means immigrants that live in places that are not directly connected in continuous development to the care of the city are excluded. Places like the Woodlands are not included with Houston or Denton with Dallas.
New York City - 18 Countries: Mexico, India, China, Haiti, Philippines, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Jamaica, Korea, Guatemala, Ecuador, Poland, Peru, Guyana, Bangladesh, Trinidad and Tobago, and Italy.
Miami/Fort Lauderdale - 14 Countries: Cuba, Mexico, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Venezuela, Jamaica, Guatemala, Brazil, Nicaragua, Honduras, Ecuador, Peru, and Argentina
Washington DC - 13 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, El Salvador, Korea, Guatemala, Honduras, Ethiopia, Peru, Bolivia, Pakistan
Los Angeles - 11 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, El Salvador, Taiwan, Korea, Guatemala, Iran, and Armenia.
San Jose - 11 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, Taiwan, Korea, Hong Kong, Iran, Japan, and Russia
Houston - 10 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, El Salvador, Venezuela, Guatemala, Honduras, and Nigeria
San Francisco - 10 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, El Salvador, Taiwan, Korea, Guatemala, and Hong Kong
Boston - 9 Countries: India, Vietnam, China, Haiti, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Guatemala, and Brazil
Orlando - 9 Countries: Cuba, Mexico, India, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Venezuela, Jamaica, and Brazil
Seattle/Tacoma - 8 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, Korea, Ethiopia, and Canada
Sacramento - 8 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, Afghanistan, Fiji, and Ukraine
Minneapolis/St. Paul - 7 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, Somalia, Ethiopia, Laos, and Thailand
Las Vegas - 7 Countries: Cuba, Mexico, China, Philippines, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Ethiopia
Tampa - 7 Countries: Cuba, Mexico, India, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Venezuela, and Canada
Atlanta - 6 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, Jamaica, Korea, and Guatemala
Riverside - 6 Countries: Mexico, China, Philippines, Vietnam, El Salvador, and Guatemala
Detroit - 6 Countries: Mexico, India, Iraq, Canada, Bangladesh, and Lebanon
San Diego - 6 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, and Iraq
Portland, OR - 6 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, Philippines, and Korea
Chicago - 5 Countries: Mexico, India, China, Philippines, and Poland
Dallas/Fort Worth - 5 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, China, and El Salvador
Baltimore - 5 Countries: India, China, El Salvador, Korea, and Nigeria
Charlotte - 5 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, El Salvador, and Honduras
Philadelphia - 4 Countries: Mexico, India, China, and Dominican Republic
Columbus, OH - 4 Countries: Mexico, India, China, and Somalia
Austin - 4 Countries: Mexico, India, Vietnam, and China
Providence - 4 Countries: Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Cabo Verde and Portugal
Jacksonville - 4 Countries: Cuba, Mexico, India, and Philippines
Phoenix - 3 Countries: Mexico, Philippines, and Canada
Indianapolis - 3 Countries: Mexico, India, and Burma
Denver - 2 Countries: Mexico and India
Kansas City - 2 Countries: Mexico and India
Milwaukee - 2 Countries: Mexico and India
San Antonio - 1 Country: Mexico
Cleveland - 1 Country: India
Virginia Beach - 1 Country: Philippines
Here is racial diversity:
New York/Newark/Jersey City MSA:
White - 45.1% - 8,674,519
Hispanic - 25.0% - 4,808,471
Black - 15.7% - 3,016,880
Asian - 11.4% - 2,192,841
Los Angeles/Long Beach/Anaheim MSA:
Hispanic - 45.1% - 5,936,061
White - 29.2% - 3,857,886
Asian - 16.1% - 2,125,243
Black - 6.3% - 829,224
Chicago/Naperville/Elgin MSA:
White - 52.3% - 4,942,746
Hispanic - 22.6% - 2,132,755
Black - 16.1% - 1,521,704
Asian - 6.8% - 649,835
Dallas/Fort Worth/Arlington MSA:
White - 44.9% - 3,399,834
Hispanic - 29.3% - 2,219,072
Black - 15.9% - 1,201,835
Asian - 7.3% - 551,059
Houston/The Woodlands/Sugar Land MSA:
Hispanic - 38.0% - 2,682,311
White - 35.1% - 2,481,118
Black - 16.8% - 1,190,236
Asian - 7.8% - 550,675
Washington DC/Arlington/Alexandria MSA:
White - 44.7% - 2,806,870
Black - 24.9% - 1,563,337
Hispanic - 16.3% - 1,021,386
Asian - 10.3% - 645, 564
Miami/Fort Lauderdale/Pompano Beach MSA:
Hispanic - 46.1% - 2,842,930
White - 29.5% - 1,817,027
Black - 20.0% - 1,233,921
Asian - 2.5% - 152,893
Atlanta/Sandy Springs/Alpharetta MSA:
White - 45.9% - 2,762,575
Black - 34.2% - 2,057,902
Hispanic - 11.0% - 661,048
Asian - 6.1% - 364,660
San Francisco/Oakland/Berkley MSA:
White - 38.6% - 1,827,248
Asian - 26.8% - 1,269,263
Hispanic - 14.3% - 1,033,922
Black - 7.2% - 341,500
San Diego/Carlsbad MSA:
White - 44.8% - 1,495,234
Hispanic - 34.1% - 1,140,033
Asian - 11.8% - 394,644
Black - 4.7% - 156,423
Las Vegas/Paradise/Henderson MSA:
White - 41.3% - 935,092
Hispanic - 31.6% - 717,278
Black - 11.9% - 269,990
Asian - 9.8% - 222,607
San Jose/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara MSA:
Asian - 36.5% - 726,115
White - 30.5% - 607,034
Hispanic - 26.1% - 520,512
Black - 2.3% - 46,665
Interesting how many of those cities have the largest group right around 45%.
I’ve had to give this a lot of thought. I’ve always been ranked very well among my peers and will almost certainly reach the executive level if I stay put. I’d be giving up a fair amount of restricted stock and certainly the pension benefits would stop accumulating.
Part of my concern is whether the pension will even be that attractive in 25 years. For one, if the sector continues to struggle it’s almost certain that those benefits will be renegotiated just like they were for the auto workers and airlines employees, and they could easily stop accruing them at any time. The pension payout is also heavily influenced by the interest rate at the time of retirement, and so there’s a fair amount of risk there.
It’s not an easy decision, but we saved enough and I feel like we’ll have enough income and accumulated assets to still meet our retirement goals. I certainly recognize this will put me behind a bit and I will not come out ahead financially, which is a bit of an ego hit.
So you have a decent job, on a career track to be an executive in the next decade, you and your family are reasonably happy and you want to throw that all away for potentially less money, four seasons, mountains, an outdoor lifestyle (whatever that means) in Knoxville, Greenville, or a Charlotte.
6 months after you moved, you would never look at the mountains, you would hate the winters, and there’s nothing you can really do in those cities you can’t do or find in Houston.
So you have a decent job, on a career track to be an executive in the next decade, you and your family are reasonably happy and you want to throw that all away for potentially less money, four seasons, mountains, an outdoor lifestyle (whatever that means) in Knoxville, Greenville, or a Charlotte.
6 months after you moved, you would never look at the mountains, you would hate the winters, and there’s nothing you can really do in those cities you can’t do or find in Houston.
I agree with this completely but that’s just reflects me personally. Some people enjoy it for life.
So you have a decent job, on a career track to be an executive in the next decade, you and your family are reasonably happy and you want to throw that all away for potentially less money, four seasons, mountains, an outdoor lifestyle (whatever that means) in Knoxville, Greenville, or a Charlotte.
6 months after you moved, you would never look at the mountains, you would hate the winters, and there’s nothing you can really do in those cities you can’t do or find in Houston.
Luckily, we lived in Chapel Hill for 2 years while I did grad school so I can say with absolute confidence that the novelty of mountains and 4 seasons will last longer than 6 months! We can’t go camping as a family this month (or any weekend between the months of April and September). How do you put a price on family events like that? I have another 30 years to earn money and only another 10 years to raise my children and fill them with memories to last a lifetime. I guess I’ve decided that more money is pretty meaningless at this point in my life. We have a dream house on 1.5 acres in Benders Landing. We have a vacation cabin up in Broken Bow. We go on several vacations every year, have a boat….. I don’t make crazy money (we had a few really good investments early on), but besides upgrading my 07’ Ford I’m honestly not sure what I’d do with “executive money” that was meaningful, but if I could spend $50k per year to have better weather, be able to play outside with the kids on any weekend (skiing in the winter months), and be able to have a slower pace I think I’d do that in a heartbeat.
Don’t get me wrong, we do plenty as a family now. We watch movies together in our theater, we go to the trampoline park, I go to their sporting events (which are miserable past March), we have a ridiculous board game collection (I go to the BGG Con most years and have a self-admitted problem lol), but the time we spend outside as a family is far more memorable and impactful. Does it really matter if you retire with $2.5M instead of $3.4M? I genuinely don’t know — I’ve been conditioned to equate self-value at least partially with income and wealth. That’s the way this society is. I’m beginning to realize though, that doesn’t necessarily translate to true happiness. On the other hand, I’m willing to bet on myself and have no reason to believe I won’t become an executive at Walmart in Bentonville or Lowe’s or Mooresville or Michelin in Greenville or Unum in Chattanooga. Do you settle for a triple or go for the home run and risk striking out? Not an easy decision .
As you said, it’s a different trade off for everyone.
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