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a home that you buy based on pre-construction info should be inspected at several stages during construction process--as many of them as you can afford but definitely after foundation is done, before sheetrock is put up (when rough out plumbing/electric should be in and windows/roof), and after the HVAC is done and fixtures are installed and workable,
you are going to pay one way or the other for how well the house is built--
the problem is that something that might be fixed initially for 1K or less--if left to develope into problem could eventually cost 10 times that much...
the only time you really have ANY POWER in the building/buying of a house is BEFORE CLOSING--
after closing most builders turn you over to some home insurance program they buy a policy for which is basically worthless---THEY don't come take care of problems that are over a year old and that is how long it takes for some problems to manifest themselves--sometimes 3 or 5 yrs later...
so yes
and you should have had it written into the contract that any problems that are in violation of the international codes for construction would be amended properly at builder's expense prior to closing...those codes are not city inspection codes but usually more stringent
most builders would not agree to that language in contract but that is what they should be willing to do
and RIGAS--this is about building a house that is safe, with systems that operate effectively and as they are designed to--
not to have windows that are installed quickly and with minimal weather flashing or without any care if they start to have water infiltrate
about having plumbing/wiring installed CORRECTLY--not haphazarly or cheaply
having right kind of blocking in attic supports, attention to detail
Case in point--
we built house in Houston years ago--40 or so (not living there now but someone is)--and after about two years the wood siding started to split and separate and turn to crap--the builder was still working in the development and several of us on same street with same problem--complained to builder--he blamed it on bad siding and turned us over to the siding company--maybe GAF--
anyway--some of their people came out to do on-site inspection because there were probably 8-10 houses with same problem...
what they discovered was that the exterior plywood had NEVER been sealed before it was painted--as it was supposed to have been--the crew that did that part of the builder's construction process stopped because it started to rain and then couple of days later when the rain stopped the paint crew came out and painted raw wood...so with the weather the way it is in Houston paint (and probably minimal coat) was not sufficient to protect the wood siding...
we got replacment siding AND they made sure it was pre-treated before painting it...
now an inspector might not have caught that particular problem during construction---the builder's construction supervisor (his brother Steve)--SHOULD HAVE caught it when it happened but he was a ditz like many construction supervisors today...
so no
houses are not built perfectly because they are built by people who rarely do anyting perfectly that is as complex as building a house
BUT they can certainly be built BETTER than most of them are
just because something is complex and requires attention to detail does not excuse the people who are contracted to PROVIDE that level of expertise from doing a good job...
Last edited by loves2read; 07-30-2009 at 06:44 AM..
I would suggest you also look at your contract before you sign anything. Look for the words Mandatory Binding Arbitration and AAA (American Arbitration Association).
What was the "property" size you recommended they install after you made them "rip" it out?
The "proper" size was 6 gauge.
The real problem I had with the situation was their lack of understanding about the function of a circuit breaker. The wire size they had selected was not a careless mistake - they based the size on the normal operating current of the unit (something below 30A). The unit only required a 60A breaker to accommodate the start-up spike .
The actual safety issue had nothing to do with the AC unit but rather the combination of a 60A breaker protecting a 10 gauge wire.
a home that you buy based on pre-construction info should be inspected at several stages during construction process--as many of them as you can afford but definitely after foundation is done, before sheetrock is put up (when rough out plumbing/electric should be in and windows/roof), and after the HVAC is done and fixtures are installed and workable,
you are going to pay one way or the other for how well the house is built--
the problem is that something that might be fixed initially for 1K or less--if left to develope into problem could eventually cost 10 times that much...
the only time you really have ANY POWER in the building/buying of a house is BEFORE CLOSING--
after closing most builders turn you over to some home insurance program they buy a policy for which is basically worthless---THEY don't come take care of problems that are over a year old and that is how long it takes for some problems to manifest themselves--sometimes 3 or 5 yrs later...
so yes
and you should have had it written into the contract that any problems that are in violation of the international codes for construction would be amended properly at builder's expense prior to closing...those codes are not city inspection codes but usually more stringent
most builders would not agree to that language in contract but that is what they should be willing to do
and RIGAS--this is about building a house that is safe, with systems that operate effectively and as they are designed to--
not to have windows that are installed quickly and with minimal weather flashing or without any care if they start to have water infiltrate
about having plumbing/wiring installed CORRECTLY--not haphazarly or cheaply
having right kind of blocking in attic supports, attention to detail
Case in point--
we built house in Houston years ago--40 or so (not living there now but someone is)--and after about two years the wood siding started to split and separate and turn to crap--the builder was still working in the development and several of us on same street with same problem--complained to builder--he blamed it on bad siding and turned us over to the siding company--maybe GAF--
anyway--some of their people came out to do on-site inspection because there were probably 8-10 houses with same problem...
what they discovered was that the exterior plywood had NEVER been sealed before it was painted--as it was supposed to have been--the crew that did that part of the builder's construction process stopped because it started to rain and then couple of days later when the rain stopped the paint crew came out and painted raw wood...so with the weather the way it is in Houston paint (and probably minimal coat) was not sufficient to protect the wood siding...
we got replacment siding AND they made sure it was pre-treated before painting it...
now an inspector might not have caught that particular problem during construction---the builder's construction supervisor (his brother Steve)--SHOULD HAVE caught it when it happened but he was a ditz like many construction supervisors today...
so no
houses are not built perfectly because they are built by people who rarely do anyting perfectly that is as complex as building a house
BUT they can certainly be built BETTER than most of them are
just because something is complex and requires attention to detail does not excuse the people who are contracted to PROVIDE that level of expertise from doing a good job...
loves2read
not exactly sure why you called me out in such a way but since you did here goes.
all of the inspections you point out as being a needed and the times they need to be done are already being done, in this case, by the builder, by the city, and by the 3rd party inspection already contract. on top of those inspections, there are more (ie the foundation which is THE most important inspection PERIOD). a city inspection/code is ABOVE AND BEYOND the IRC (interantional residential building code) which is just a BASE code and not specific like a city code which must pertain to local needs.
as for you plywood issue, sure the builder should have caught that, or maybe 40 yrs ago nobody cared enough? unless you are going to have a 3rd party inspector stand on your homesite day in and day out they would never catch that either as it is NOT CODE, it would be a material spec and not something the inspector would even know about more then likely.
as i have stated, 3rd party inspectors are fine and all but the builders are not required to fix anything outside of CODE. if you want a custom home build a custom home, dont give me the whole "its about building quality" or "its about installing things to work correctly", 99% of every production home in the houston area is built per code, and 99% of those never have a major issue in an major system in the home (ie plumbing, electrical, hvac, foundation) a lot of you guys try to make the builder out to be the bad guy because he will not build yo ua custom home or because he isnt legally obligated to fix anything that is not a code violation. just like the primer on your siding paint, the builder might be responcible because it was instaled incorrectly and might have fixed it if it was called out BUT legally he is not required to as it is not a CODE voilation.
you go right on ahead and get your 3rd party inspection, have him stand out there day in and day out for $10000 and will stick with the inspections already offered, and i will GUARNATEE we both get the same house and i saved $10000 for a nice vacation.
Quote:
"Originally Posted by loves2read
a home that you buy based on pre-construction info should be inspected at several stages during construction process--as many of them as you can afford but definitely after foundation is done, before sheetrock is put up (when rough out plumbing/electric should be in and windows/roof), and after the HVAC is done and fixtures are installed and workable,
you are going to pay one way or the other for how well the house is built--
the problem is that something that might be fixed initially for 1K or less--if left to develope into problem could eventually cost 10 times that much...
the only time you really have ANY POWER in the building/buying of a house is BEFORE CLOSING--
after closing most builders turn you over to some home insurance program they buy a policy for which is basically worthless---THEY don't come take care of problems that are over a year old and that is how long it takes for some problems to manifest themselves--sometimes 3 or 5 yrs later...
so yes
and you should have had it written into the contract that any problems that are in violation of the international codes for construction would be amended properly at builder's expense prior to closing...those codes are not city inspection codes but usually more stringent
most builders would not agree to that language in contract but that is what they should be willing to do
and RIGAS--this is about building a house that is safe, with systems that operate effectively and as they are designed to--
not to have windows that are installed quickly and with minimal weather flashing or without any care if they start to have water infiltrate
about having plumbing/wiring installed CORRECTLY--not haphazarly or cheaply
having right kind of blocking in attic supports, attention to detail
Case in point--
we built house in Houston years ago--40 or so (not living there now but someone is)--and after about two years the wood siding started to split and separate and turn to crap--the builder was still working in the development and several of us on same street with same problem--complained to builder--he blamed it on bad siding and turned us over to the siding company--maybe GAF--
anyway--some of their people came out to do on-site inspection because there were probably 8-10 houses with same problem...
what they discovered was that the exterior plywood had NEVER been sealed before it was painted--as it was supposed to have been--the crew that did that part of the builder's construction process stopped because it started to rain and then couple of days later when the rain stopped the paint crew came out and painted raw wood...so with the weather the way it is in Houston paint (and probably minimal coat) was not sufficient to protect the wood siding...
we got replacment siding AND they made sure it was pre-treated before painting it...
now an inspector might not have caught that particular problem during construction---the builder's construction supervisor (his brother Steve)--SHOULD HAVE caught it when it happened but he was a ditz like many construction supervisors today...
so no
houses are not built perfectly because they are built by people who rarely do anyting perfectly that is as complex as building a house
BUT they can certainly be built BETTER than most of them are
just because something is complex and requires attention to detail does not excuse the people who are contracted to PROVIDE that level of expertise from doing a good job..."
This is right on the money. You have given outstanding advice as far as I am concerned. If someone does not want to take your advice they may wish they had later. As I have pointed out let them look at HOBB and HADD.
When we finished building our home last summer in Katy there were things that our 4th party private inspector located that our builder had not had corrected. This was after our builder had sent in their own "third party inspector". My neighbor told me that the builders so called third party inspectors only spend about 30 minutes per home. Our inspector spent 3 hours.
One of the items was the size of the AC breaker. The 60 amp breaker should only have been a 40 amp at the largest. The AC line in the attic had air leaks so we would have been cooling the attic. The builder did not have a "dryer booster fan" installed and would have gotten away with it since it drywall was going up the next day. We may have thought that our dryer just did not work properly had our inspector not found it. I could go on and on. This was from a well known reputable builder too.
We are glad we hired our own inspector. Builders know that most home buyers do not know a thing about construction. One thing I realized during our construction is that code is just building to the minimal standard. If your builder just wants to build the minimal they are not too proud of their product.
YESSSSS!!!!! Get your own inspector. I am not sure why you are paying for two, if you do. What other inspector are you paying for, besides the one you hire? The 3rd party inspector Meritage hired? You have got to be kidding. Guess who he will lean toward? Call them and tell them that if you have to pay for him - you're pickin' him!!
Notice that I am a realtor.
Meritage (or any other builder) looks for obvious code violations but could give a flip about poor construction. By the time it bites you, they will be down the road. Good luck after that!
Let me guess... you are going alone without a realtor? Yeah, and the builder's salesman is such a nice person, no doubt.
I have helped numerous people buy a home where they would be the second owner. When they had their inspector check the home - several times there were expensive repairs that had to be done (sometimes code violations) that were there when the home was built (we are talking about homes just a couple of years old). Guess who got to pay to have them done before we could move forward with the sale? The seller. That $300 inspector sure looked cheap in retrospect to them.
On new homes, we take the buyer's inspector's report - give a copy to the builder and check later to make sure the things were done. Someone said above that they probably just throw the report out the window - that's why you keep a copy. Good builders won't mind - bad builders will fuss - but part of your realtor's job is to ensure they fix it.
this is very true BUT you will be hard pressed to find a builder who WILL do those things. so are you going to go from builder to builder losing earnest money everywhere you go?
if your that woried maybe you should just build a custom home.
if you are intersted in buying a production home, you will have to make those concessions. i have seen some builders drop buyers, "here take your earnest money and leave" because they are not required to do some of the CRAP the buyer wants.
there is no such thing as a perfect home, builders realize this, home buyers rarely do. home buyers also think that getting a private inspector is the cure all. if a builder is building in a city, and has an independent inspector, and a QA (quality assurance) program in house, why spent 200+ per visit (minimum 3 visits) for someone who is more then likely going to call out a bunch of stuff the builder is not going to do anything with anyway. not very financially responcible but to each his own.
All high-end builders - like Trendmaker - do. Lennar does. Beazer does - among others. The buyer would do well to walk on a construction nightmare.
i had a friend who had a house built in longwood many years ago. the builder hired an inspector before closing and everything was ok. my friend decided to hire his own inspector and guess what....they apparently forgot to put insulation in the attic...duh. it would be nice to think the builder would've corrected it after closing, but better to not take the chance.
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inspections needed
