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Give yourselves a pat on the back, you won. The goal in the beginning of this crisis was to "flatten the curve." The long version said it was necessary to control the spread of the virus so the hospitals would not be overwhelmed. That goal has been achieved. It cost many lives and there will be more lives lost as the virus runs its course through the population.
THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS CANNOT BE STOPPED.
The fact that we are now prepared for infections having increased the supply of PPE and ventilators means we can return to our way of life prior to the crisis. Of course, we learned to take care of ourselves and keep ourselves and surfaces clean to prevent the spread of communicable diseases. We learned that certain people are more likely to die if they are infected. Those people should protect themselves and be protected by their families and the community. We learned that many things can be done remotely or without close contact. We need to keep these lessons not only for COVID-19 but for the previous corona viruses and the future ones. We will continue to learn ways to combat the effects of this virus.
There is a push for mission creep to something like stopping the virus (impossible) to testing everyone (valid until the person leaves the test site.) While systems are preferable to goals, once a goal is achieved, it's achieved and done. If another goal is desired, it needs to be evaluated for achieve-ability and then a system to reach that goal developed.
Absent a new national goal, America needs to DECLARE VICTORY AND GET BACK TO WORK.
i.e. Send all of the worker peasants back to the factories and their equivalents so that those who depend on the labor of others can get back to capitalizing! As the mayor of Las Vegas, Carolyn Goodman just admitted: we'll offer our peasants to you as guinea pigs so that we can experiment with the lives of the working classes.
So, what's your angle? Are you a legitimate working class citizen who is offering to go back to work in potentially unsafe environs so you can make $9/hr? Or are you offering to go back to a fairly insulated environ where you'll make $70,000 per year and will be able to take necessary precautions for your own safety? Or are you an even worse person where you'll profit from the lives of others who you need to get back to work regardless of the circumstances?
My situation...I stopped working years ago. Until last month I volunteered at a non-profit and worked with a bunch of folks making less than $15/hr. I "worked" there 25 hours a week. They are all unemployed now and we keep in touch. I'm picking up and delivering from the local food bank because they can't afford to drive to the food bank. They work outside where they have very little chance of getting any virus. They work independently or in groups of two or three. They live in apartment buildings and are cooped up with strangers. Their bills are growing and the Government has killed their dreams of earning a living. I can hear the depression in their voices building.
Clearly Huntsville/Madison is not going to suffer as most of those out mowing their lawns and playing golf are also on telecons and getting paid. Once one gets out of that bubble there is a lot to see and what there is to see isn't pretty and it's getting uglier as we let it go on.
The goal was to flatten the curve mission accomplished. Why not declare victory
Because jeez o pete that's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
If restrictions were wise when we had a few thousand cases, do you honestly think it's just hunky dory now to go back to business as usual when we have three quarters of a million documented active cases? You don't see how any 'flattening of the curve' wouldn't within two weeks return to an exponential spike if we said 'virus defeated! we won! It's done!'
You can't possibly be that dense, so I'm assuming you're in denial. I get it. It's an extremely hard pill to swallow. But it's important that everyone get their head wrapped around reality right now.
Now I do think we have to be pragmatic and acknowledge that we have to balance things with some acceptable losses as we move forward, but no, this is not a 'victory'. However the path forward materializes, this is a continued battle for quite some time to come.. not a 'victory'. For the time being, we have no real means in place for sufficient tracking and testing as advised as necessary by public health personnel - we need to keep working on our shortcomings and employ data-driven restrictions as we move forward, keeping very much in mind that there is NOT yet a 'victory' and that we very much have a remaining threat to fight.
Whether those restrictions are voluntary or government-mandated or a combination of both, and what level of death and mayhem is an acceptable price to pay for economic stability, are matters open to discussion. But regardless there is definitely no 'victory' right now.
Give yourselves a pat on the back, you won. The goal in the beginning of this crisis was to "flatten the curve." The long version said it was necessary to control the spread of the virus so the hospitals would not be overwhelmed. That goal has been achieved. It cost many lives and there will be more lives lost as the virus runs its course through the population.
THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS CANNOT BE STOPPED.
The fact that we are now prepared for infections having increased the supply of PPE and ventilators means we can return to our way of life prior to the crisis. Of course, we learned to take care of ourselves and keep ourselves and surfaces clean to prevent the spread of communicable diseases. We learned that certain people are more likely to die if they are infected. Those people should protect themselves and be protected by their families and the community. We learned that many things can be done remotely or without close contact. We need to keep these lessons not only for COVID-19 but for the previous corona viruses and the future ones. We will continue to learn ways to combat the effects of this virus.
There is a push for mission creep to something like stopping the virus (impossible) to testing everyone (valid until the person leaves the test site.) While systems are preferable to goals, once a goal is achieved, it's achieved and done. If another goal is desired, it needs to be evaluated for achieve-ability and then a system to reach that goal developed.
Absent a new national goal, America needs to DECLARE VICTORY AND GET BACK TO WORK.
I think that we have heard that "declare victory" speech before... It was premature then and it is now.
The full immediate effects of the virus won't be known for quite some time, and that is avoiding the whole question of what long term damage that may come from having had it. Will survivors drop dead in two years or ten years from some as yet unknown side effect? We don't know. Just now, more info is coming out regarding blood clots and other areas of infection, a possible marker of the virus in foot bruising, etc. We don't even know the enemy, much less have a position where we can declare victory.
As with any war, winning initial skirmishes does not predict outcome.
The increasing politicization of the economic vs. health debate is playing to the fantasies of the two main political parties. "News" in many cases is now pure BS. Science and logic have been ignored or tossed out - INCLUDING by people who know better, such as the head of the WHO, who has flip-flopped more than a dying flounder on the deck of a boat. "Masks aren't needed... Wear masks..." Idiot.
We went into this pandemic with a number of vulnerabilities. We warehouse the elderly and infirm because it is cost effective. We have prisons that are grandfathered in and don't even meet current basic building codes and are overcrowded to the point of cruel and unusual because nobody wants to spend money. We have drug companies that cheerfully kill diabetics by raising insulin pricing to unaffordable levels. We also have a population of the obese, fed for profit upon a diet of over-processed and nutritionally deficient foods that are cheap to produce and addictive in nature. We have sub-populations that are ignored and left to fend for themselves as best they can. Veterans live in homeless camps. We have a few (not all) religious "leaders" who were too late in line for the free brains giveaway by the creator. We have dedicated health workers and first responders who risk their own lives without being provided with proper equipment.
Look at those vulnerabilities, and then look at those who the virus targets for death.
Elderly, infirm, and sick who can't fight back
The obese
Blacks
Overtired first responders
Those who insist on gathering in large groups
The stupid and egotistical
The virus DOES discriminate, in the same way that many diseases discriminate. In addition, it throws in a seemingly random healthy group to kill, making it all the more vexing.
Saying that the vulnerable need to self-protect forgets that most of the elderly are parents or grandparents. How do their kids and grandkids party on and still have any meaningful relation with them? Or do you just treat them as foregone casualties? There are NOT enough masks and PPE yet. If you think there are, I will remind you that the cure for drowning used to be to blow smoke up the butt of the drowned person. (True fact.) That same smoke blowing has seen a resurgence and I for one am tired of it.
From a brutal evolutionary standpoint, the virus is thinning the herd and killing off the weak just like wolves choose the weakest deer in a herd to cull. A virus has no morality other than opportunism.
The uncomfortable debate that arises in the face of such a foe becomes "Sanctity of all life, or sanctity of the way of life." The first fact is that the old way of life is already dead. That battle has already been lost. The new reality will be different. The second fact is that the weakest of the weak have died and that population will continue dying until a new stasis is formed. [Sarcasm mode on] When social security was first formed in 1935, with a retirement age of 65, the average lifespan of an American man was 58 years. Perhaps with this virus, lifespans will again decrease and the oligarchs who hate it will have a harder time dismantling it - or just no longer care, as few will reach an age to cash in. [Sarcasm mode off]
Where is the best balance point between economic health and the health of the population? No one knows.
The virus will do what it does. Given free rein it will take a significant chunk of the population in a short period of time, and cause political and economic chaos as a side effect. I said it before, if EVERYONE completely isolated for a month, then it would die out completely - but that is impossible. What we have is an in-between mess, where our leader has repeatedly proven himself to be a fantasist and Pollyanna. We have conflicting messages and outright lies not only in this country, but from around the world. The media has only served to fan the flames.
The delay that lockdowns gave were intended to provide us with time to gather our forces, create the materiel to fight the war, give us information on the enemy. Sadly, Pogo was again right. We wasted that time trying to figure out how to blame things on those we disagree with, those we hate, those who would not vote with us.
Where do we go from here?
1. Masks in public provide a reduction in the rate of spread and buy more time. This requirement needs to be made into a self-limiting law, to expire in one year.
2. The larger the public assembly, the stricter the restrictions must be, at least short term. It might be possible to have sold out daytime SEC football with fans IF... fans were provided with cheap disposable plastic hoodie raincoats and N-95 masks and required to wear them from the time they walked in the stadium until they got back to their cars. Sprays or mists with decontaminants during the game might not be unreasonable. Churches of fewer than 200 members might be able to hold service outdoors with just masks for protection. Most importantly, the vulnerable need not to be shamed in any way for increasing their own protection or opting out of gatherings.
3. Mass transit needs a reworking and to be taken out of the 19th century. I addressed that here on the forums and on my blog years ago. Vested money talks and I won't repeat myself beating my head against that brick wall of stupidity. I did note that one country bus has changed to a convoy of cars heading to and from one local business. Smart, under the circumstances.
4. Split shifts and 20 hour business models to limit group sizes in manufacturing will limit any outbreak.
5. Contact tracing, as best can be done given privacy concerns.
6. Further testing on Remdesivir, zinc and quercetin, vitamin C and D supplementation, plasma transfers, hyperbaric therapy, etc. I personally have doubts that an effective vaccine can be developed without major breakthroughs.
As for the job situation and economy, we have a historical guide from the great depression. The conservative model failed for years, and Herbert Hoover was ultimately consigned by history as an ineffective chump. It took FDR and his twisting the ears and noses of the ultra-wealthy until they screamed to stop the bleeding. Instead of bread lines, those willing to work were put to work on great public projects and trained to become the greatest generation. The taxes on the wealthy few were HUGE and that continued on for years. America was not really great until FDR lead it on that path. Hoover promised a chicken in every pot, but never delivered, no matter how much he clucked. I wish I could say that I saw someone of FDR caliber on the horizon, but the divisiveness and corruption of the political system and media have effectively excluded the most competent who lead through science and not popularity.
I am carefully watching how other countries react and what the results are. India is of particular interest and may give some important clues on how best to move forward.
There is a lot of denunciation of things I never said. Fine. What I am saying is mission creep is a horrible thing. The commanders intent-flatten the curve-has been met and we are floundering, as shown by the above posts, trying to find a new mission. This will continue until a decision is made that we have moved on from this phase (FTC) to whatever we call the next phase.
There is a lot of denunciation of things I never said. Fine. What I am saying is mission creep is a horrible thing. The commanders intent-flatten the curve-has been met and we are floundering, as shown by the above posts, trying to find a new mission. This will continue until a decision is made that we have moved on from this phase (FTC) to whatever we call the next phase.
Mission creep IS a legitimate danger in many areas of life. "Protecting" us at our own expense and to our detriment has been the modus operandi of businesses that have the fearful and one political party in their thrall. Radon and asbestos remediation industries have worked that angle, to the point that distrust is inevitable. Following the money shows the corruption and root of the restrictions that tick a lot of us off.
When a real danger hits that has EVERY country scrambling, that fear must be set aside. There is no easy way to say this- those with power have lied about the virus and effects from the start. You, and many others, bought into those lies. There was no way on G**'s little green earth this was going to be over by May 15, Easter, or the end of June. From the time that China - a HIGHLY controlled country - started locking down a huge city, the handwriting was on the wall if the virus escaped. We are more realistically looking at eighteen months to two years of tsuris. Independent thinkers recognized that immediately. The short time frames, the don't panic, don't wear N95 masks because they don't work (yeah, right) are all meant to control civil order at the expense of the truth.
The continuation is not mission creep. If you had recognized the impossibly of short term goals completely solving the virus problem, you would have seen them for what.they are - an effort to buy time while all the kids in the back seat are screaming "Are we there yet???"
You were lied to. You believed the lies. Time to grow up and forget the fantasies. Although this affects all of humanity, as disasters go, it is a blip compared to the plague, less a danger to kids than polio was, and not a case of genocide with you as the target. Yes, some businesses will fail, some politicians like the mayor of Vegas will display stunning incompetence, and people trying to grab or hold power will play blame games. Ignore the lies and fantasies. Think for yourself and look for better people to trust than politicians, sychophants and scammers.
Can this thread be moved to the Politics and Other Controversies forum?
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It was premature then and it is now.
Idiot.
