Considerations for Building a Small Shop (homes, roofing, storage)

[javatom]

Very wide trusses get to big to haul down the road. They then have to be made in 2 parts. The top part is then added on in the field. That process makes it all cost more. The size limitation can vary by manufacturer and location of building.

[Ghostrider16]

Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke

Putting in a 60 X 60 shop right now. It's about $60,000 for the actual shop and another $60,000 for clearing and ground preparation and driveway. That includes a chain link fence. If your ground is not dead level, site preparation might be a lot more.

OWS... Who did you end up going with to build your shop?

Originally Posted by kayaker6

We've had MQS build 2 insulated shops and 1 - 4 bay open shed Priest River area south of Dufort and the river. Quality Amish workmanship!

kayaker6...What size were your two insulated shops and what did they run to build each of them (if you don't mind sharing)?

[oregonwoodsmoke]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider16

OWS... Who did you end up going with to build your shop?,,,,,,,

I'll give them a reference after they get the shop finished and the work is good. As it is, it is taking so long that I am thinking we won't get our concrete floor done this year.


Mike Evarts, from Post Falls, did the clearing, driveway, building pad, and chain link fence. It's him and his own family members doing the work, and they do good work. The company name is Evarts Adversity LLC. He's licensed. He's also very busy so you have to book months in advance. They are heavy equipment, earth moving, fencing, forestry, and I'm not sure, but I think they are going the concrete, too. Big plus for them, they actually show up, do the work, and do a good job of it. He does snow plowing in the winter, or at least has in the past.



From Bonners Ferry, I've used J&M to do an addition on the existing barn and they did an excellent job and they show up when they say they will be there. The wife Alaina has a little painting company and she has done a good job on an interior paint job for me, again showing up when scheduled and getting the job done correctly. I don't hesitate to recommend them for building a pole barn. They definitely do the concrete work for the pole barn.


I'll PM you contact information for them.

[ID Danz]

Originally Posted by nm9stheham

- OP are you looking to do any of the work or have it all done for you?
- Do you want standard batte type insulation or spray in closed cell foam?
- OK with supports in the middle or the area or free and open all over?
- Concrete floor or gravel OK?

Your size is <half of OWS's building, and so can be done with a 32' wide by 50' long building. But not sure what shape you want/need, and that has a lot to do with how it would/could be designed and the construction method.

And I'll have to disagree on the construction options..... 1600 sq ft is can be done with standard stick work and if you are OK with supports in the area. Also depends on the shape, roof line, etc.... which may be dictated by ground space, etc.

BTW, doing a 24'x36' dual bay garage here.... moderate site prep, some fill work needed inside the foundation (sloped mountainside site), 8-over-12 roof with a big storage loft, sided to match house. Stick built, heavier than average construction. Will run about $25k with me and helpers doing much of the framing work, but most of the foundation and slab work done by others. So around $30/sq ft... pretty close to what OWS is doing. I doubt you are going to get much lower, and could run a good bit higher.

I'll probably have the work done since I don't have any framing experience. I'm thinking post-frame construction with perimeter supports and a concrete floor.



I'm fine with batt insulation as long as it's done right, although with a sealed ceiling and vented attic I understand closed cell might actually insulate better than higher R-value batt due to the air movement, so it might be worth the extra cost.



I looked more at floor plans and realized a 30x40 w 10' doors would probably do fine for what I need. I'd like to have PEX run in the concrete to have the potential for a heated floor, but that might bust the budget.

[ID Danz]

Originally Posted by kayaker6

We've had MQS build 2 insulated shops and 1 - 4 bay open shed Priest River area south of Dufort and the river. Quality Amish workmanship!

Custom Post Frame Building in Montana | MQS Barn

Re the 2 insulated shops MQS built, did they seal the building properly? Have seen one guy complaining there was no vapor barrier installed.

[nm9stheham]

Originally Posted by ID Danz

I looked more at floor plans and realized a 30x40 w 10' doors would probably do fine for what I need. I'd like to have PEX run in the concrete to have the potential for a heated floor, but that might bust the budget.

If you are putting anything heavy in the garage, like heavy equipment or a motor home, then I'd look critically at the idea heated floor piping. Seems like it can't help but put extra possible cracks in the flooring. A well packed fill or soil under the floor would be even more important in that case.


Is this just for general heat in the new garage?

[Cnynrat]

Depending on your planned use, I'd give you a strong recommendation to install radiant floor heating if at all possible. I have a 35x40 shop that I mainly use as a woodworking shop. It has an overhead propane heater, which does a fine job of heating the air. But, during the winter months the floor is always cold, and after several hours of working out there my feet feel it.

I think someone here on the forum a few years ago was thinking about using a water heater to run a hydronic heating system in his shop. That might be a cost effective way to build a heating system for a small building. You might search for that thread and contact the poster to see how that worked out for them.

For a special purpose building, one advantage of building it yourself (vs. buying a property with a shop) is the ability to design in features for your needs. Aside from the in-floor heating, I'd have put in electric outlets in places in the middle of the floor to power my large stationary tools, and I'd have at least investigated putting ducting in the floor for dust collection.

Dave

[javatom]

There is nothing "cost effective" about in floor heat. It might be a good choice for a finishing room though (no air movement).

[banjomike]

Originally Posted by javatom

There is nothing "cost effective" about in floor heat. It might be a good choice for a finishing room though (no air movement).

I agree. While I've never lived in a home with floor heat, I've stayed in them, and the heater, whatever it is, is always running when it's really cold outside.

There are passive ways to store heat, like building into a berm or piling up sand, pea-gravel and rocks on the south facing walls and foundations, that seem to work as well if a house is heavily insulated and has insulated glazing.

They all end up costing more than conventional construction, though, and work the best when an engineer does the design work.

I once stayed in a vacation home a friend made on the cheap; he used straw bales for his outside walls, and covered them inside and outside with a very heavy coat of exterior stucco, then framed the inside, w/ some rock wool insulation in the framing and paneled the interior walls with 1/4" tongue & groove pine he milled himself.
All the wood came off his property, and he had a sawyer come up with a portable saw to cut the timber into finished lumber. The straw came from one of his fields.

All it took to heat it at -30º was a tiny little parlor wood stove that only held one 18" log at a time. My pal kept a sack of soft coal to use instead of wood in the stove for the times he didn't want to have to go outside to get some more wood.

The kitchen ran on propane, and when the oven was on, that was almost enough to heat the house. I had to close the dampers on the parlor stove when it became too toasty inside.

It was small, but not a tiny house; it had a full 2nd floor with 2 bedrooms and storage, and he used open grates in the floor that allowed the heat to go up to the bedrooms. Above each bedroom door there was another grate that allowed the air to keep circulating.

The bedrooms were always cooler, noticeably so, than the downstairs, but never cold.

Straw bales sounds funky, but the place actually looked quite nice with the stucco. He colored the stucco a light beige color, and used a simple post and beam for structural strength. The posts were all exposed on the exterior faces, and looked quite nice.

He said he planned to do the next one with a thatched roof, but I don't think he ever got around to building that one. The place had conventional fire-proof shingles for the roofing.

[Cnynrat]

There is nothing pleasant about spending long hours standing on a cold concrete floor. Oftentimes cost isn't the most important requirement.

Perhaps I should have said "more cost effective than a system driven by a boiler." Certainly even the largest water heater is going to be cheaper than a true boiler. Whether the water heater can provide enough hot water to run a small hydronic heating system is the question. IDK, but when I heard it I thought it was an interesting idea for a small building.

I realize the general opinion about hydronic heat is that the systems are more costly to install up front. Many think they are more efficient to operate, and many people find them to be more comfortable than a forced air system since you don't get the temperature swings that can happen with a forced air system. I realize that both factors are a function of the quality of the system design in both cases.

BTW, how often the boiler runs is not a good indicator of cost efficiency of the system. More frequent cycling for shorter periods is usually more efficient.

We have hydronic heat in our home, and are very happy with it both from a comfort (most important requirement) and an operating cost perspective.

We should get back to the topic at hand: shop talk.

Dave